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    bad omen

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    Post by SoxIlliniRob Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:13 pm

    sharpy wrote:


    Oh yea, Nate Silver.....the guy who predicted Clinton in a landslide

    He absolutely did not predict any such thing, Tim.  In fact in the days up to the election he went out of his way to say that Trump had better than a puncher's chance of winning due to the high number of undeclared in most polling data.  it was always something like Hillary 48, Trump 44, undecided 8%.  He said most polling predictions were under the assumption that the undecideds would split 50/50, but continually noted that it might not break that way and that Trump would win if it broke in his favor on the undecideds.  On the day before the election, Silver had his percentages around 68% Clinton, and 32% chance Trump wins.  Obama was at 80% to Romney's 20%.  Current number is House blue 84.5% and House red 15.5%.  He's still saying the GOP can pull this off depending on where the undecideds vote.

    Silver had Clinton winning the national vote by about 3.2% and she won by about 2%.  Undeclared voters went about 60/40 to Trump.  Some believe it's because Trump voters were embarrassed to admit it aloud.  He had noted that there were some strong indicators that she had a big chance of losing if her majority vote margin were 2% or less.  And that's exactly where she was and she barely lost.  

    The New York Times had Clinton in an easy win, but that was based on something far less analytical that Silver's analysis.
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    Post by sharpy Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:47 am

    From FiveThirtyEight.com, dated Nov 8,2016 - their final conclusion


    "That remains our outlook today in our final forecast of the year. Clinton is a 71 percent favorite to win the election according to our polls-only model and a 72 percent favorite according to our polls-plus model. (The models are essentially the same at this point, so they show about the same forecast.) This reflects a meaningful improvement for Clinton in the past 48 hours as the news cycle has taken a final half-twist in her favor. Her chances have increased from about 65 percent."


    I don't know Rob. Saying someone has a 71% chance to win seems like a landslide statement, no?  If I was a betting man, I'd take that bet - and if people lied about voting for trump in 16, what are they doing now?
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    Post by blondy28 Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:16 am

    sharpy wrote:From FiveThirtyEight.com, dated Nov 8,2016 - their final conclusion


    "That remains our outlook today in our final forecast of the year. Clinton is a 71 percent favorite to win the election according to our polls-only model and a 72 percent favorite according to our polls-plus model. (The models are essentially the same at this point, so they show about the same forecast.) This reflects a meaningful improvement for Clinton in the past 48 hours as the news cycle has taken a final half-twist in her favor. Her chances have increased from about 65 percent."


    I don't know Rob. Saying someone has a 71% chance to win seems like a landslide statement, no?  If I was a betting man, I'd take that bet - and if people lied about voting for trump in 16, what are they doing now?

    Trumpers are out of the closet.  Being outwardly racist is fashionable again.   

    I don't think that people are lying about planning to vote for Pritzker in Illinois.  That's actually almost as embarrassing as voting for Trump.
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    Post by SoxIlliniRob Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:15 pm

    sharpy wrote:From FiveThirtyEight.com, dated Nov 8,2016 - their final conclusion


    "That remains our outlook today in our final forecast of the year. Clinton is a 71 percent favorite to win the election according to our polls-only model and a 72 percent favorite according to our polls-plus model. (The models are essentially the same at this point, so they show about the same forecast.) This reflects a meaningful improvement for Clinton in the past 48 hours as the news cycle has taken a final half-twist in her favor. Her chances have increased from about 65 percent."


    I don't know Rob. Saying someone has a 71% chance to win seems like a landslide statement, no?  If I was a betting man, I'd take that bet - and if people lied about voting for trump in 16, what are they doing now?

    71% is by no means a landslide prediction.  No way at all.  If you dig back to Silver's columns back then, he was strongly insistent that Trump had a legitimate chance to win.  He spelled out in no uncertain terms that Trump had more than a puncher's chance.  

    Possibly a difference now is that people are not committing or claiming to be voting for Trump now.  The polls ask if you plan to vote D or R for congressional candidates.  That's a bit different than openly admitting to having plans on voting for Trump.  

    A 70/30 edge in the statistical prediction game means that essentially he was saying there's a 1 in 3 chance Trump would win.  That's not an outrageously difficult hump to overcome.  The current edge on the House rates is basically 6 to 1.  That can surely change in the next 9 days.
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    Post by SoxIlliniRob Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:19 pm

    sharpy wrote:From FiveThirtyEight.com, dated Nov 8,2016 - their final conclusion


    "That remains our outlook today in our final forecast of the year. Clinton is a 71 percent favorite to win the election according to our polls-only model and a 72 percent favorite according to our polls-plus model. (The models are essentially the same at this point, so they show about the same forecast.) This reflects a meaningful improvement for Clinton in the past 48 hours as the news cycle has taken a final half-twist in her favor. Her chances have increased from about 65 percent."


    I don't know Rob. Saying someone has a 71% chance to win seems like a landslide statement, no?  If I was a betting man, I'd take that bet - and if people lied about voting for trump in 16, what are they doing now?

    If you were a betting man, the odds on that would have been such that you'd bet $100 on Trump for the chance to win $150, or you'd bet $100 on Hillary for the chance to win about $50.  In baseball betting terms that's about the equivalent to your number one starter pitching at home against a similar team's number 3 starter, playing on the road.  You're probably gonna win, but it ain't set in stone.
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    Post by SoxIlliniRob Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:35 am

    Here is a pretty timely article for Tim's reading pleasure.  He lays out the difficulty the GOP has with the house races this fall.  Says the GOP can still pull it out and hold onto the House barely, if there's a 2-3% polling error in the data that's out there right now.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-battleground-in-the-house-is-really-big-and-that-makes-life-hard-for-republicans/
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    Post by sharpy Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:39 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Here is a pretty timely article for Tim's reading pleasure.  He lays out the difficulty the GOP has with the house races this fall.  Says the GOP can still pull it out and hold onto the House barely, if there's a 2-3% polling error in the data that's out there right now.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-battleground-in-the-house-is-really-big-and-that-makes-life-hard-for-republicans/



    then why read anything he says?  He's my opinion, and you can take this to the bank. The Democrats are going to win not only the House, but the Senate, and within six months will impeach both Trump and Pence with a 75% chance.   Unless of course, they may lose the House, which is a possibility, or they lose the Senate, which is a possibility, and then Trump and Pence will not be impeached.  There, I said it, and went out on a limb to say so
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    Post by blondy28 Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:15 pm

    sharpy wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Here is a pretty timely article for Tim's reading pleasure.  He lays out the difficulty the GOP has with the house races this fall.  Says the GOP can still pull it out and hold onto the House barely, if there's a 2-3% polling error in the data that's out there right now.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-battleground-in-the-house-is-really-big-and-that-makes-life-hard-for-republicans/



    then why read anything he says?  He's my opinion, and you can take this to the bank. The Democrats are going to win not only the House, but the Senate, and within six months will impeach both Trump and Pence with a 75% chance.   Unless of course, they may lose the House, which is a possibility, or they lose the Senate, which is a possibility, and then Trump and Pence will not be impeached.  There, I said it, and went out on a limb to say so

    They reported on a local radio station that the White House has conceded (internally) that the House is lost and that Trump will only be rallying for senate candidates and not going to anymore house districts.  

    As for predictions, I predict JB Pritzker will beat Bruce Rauner for Illinois governor in a landslide.
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    Post by SoxIlliniRob Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:53 pm

    sharpy wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Here is a pretty timely article for Tim's reading pleasure.  He lays out the difficulty the GOP has with the house races this fall.  Says the GOP can still pull it out and hold onto the House barely, if there's a 2-3% polling error in the data that's out there right now.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-battleground-in-the-house-is-really-big-and-that-makes-life-hard-for-republicans/



    then why read anything he says?  He's my opinion, and you can take this to the bank. The Democrats are going to win not only the House, but the Senate, and within six months will impeach both Trump and Pence with a 75% chance.   Unless of course, they may lose the House, which is a possibility, or they lose the Senate, which is a possibility, and then Trump and Pence will not be impeached.  There, I said it, and went out on a limb to say so

    The guy isn't in the prediction business.  He's in the statistical analysis business.  I read because I want his analysis and then I can apply my own opinions to his analysis.  In 2016, I was terribly worried about the undecideds and never felt that Hillary winning was in the bag except for a couple days after Trump told the world he freely grabs pussy because he's a star.  I'm not currently feeling as worried about the undecideds this year.  There aren't as many, and they are likely not as afraid to admit a plan on voting R or D, the way some were unwilling to admit that they'd be voting for Trump.  I suppose anything can happen, but I read it because it interests me.
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    Post by SoxIlliniRob Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:35 pm

    Just watched a pretty strong analysis about how the House race will go by Steve Kornacki on MSNBC.

    Dems need to gain about 25 or so seats from GOP.  He says there are about 17 of them on the east coast that are considered a sure thing by anyone paying attention.  Says GOP isn't even putting money into them.  They are considered by both parties to be won and done by the Dems.  After that, there are another 75-80 close races that are currently GOP seats.  Dems just need to pick up about 8 of those to take the house, and are leading in quite a number of them, but not leading by enough to say it's a slam dunk that they'll win them.  

    His final analysis said that if there's polling error by about 3% in favor of the GOP, then the GOP best possible outcome will be to hold the House by about 5 seats.  Polling error in favor of the Dems by a couple percent could mean a Dem majority of about 40-50 seats.  If things all go according to current polling, i.e. if polling is spot on, then the Dems will walk away with an approximately 27 to 33 seat majority.
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    Post by blondy28 Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:05 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Just watched a pretty strong analysis about how the House race will go by Steve Kornacki on MSNBC.

    Dems need to gain about 25 or so seats from GOP.  He says there are about 17 of them on the east coast that are considered a sure thing by anyone paying attention.  Says GOP isn't even putting money into them.  They are considered by both parties to be won and done by the Dems.  After that, there are another 75-80 close races that are currently GOP seats.  Dems just need to pick up about 8 of those to take the house, and are leading in quite a number of them, but not leading by enough to say it's a slam dunk that they'll win them.  

    His final analysis said that if there's polling error by about 3% in favor of the GOP, then the GOP best possible outcome will be to hold the House by about 5 seats.  Polling error in favor of the Dems by a couple percent could mean a Dem majority of about 40-50 seats.  If things all go according to current polling, i.e. if polling is spot on, then the Dems will walk away with an approximately 27 to 33 seat majority.

    I saw that.  Kornacki is an election savant.
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    Post by SoxIlliniRob Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:44 pm

    blondy28 wrote:


    I saw that.  Kornacki is an election savant.

    I get a kick out of his enthusiasm.  He's very good at his job.
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    Post by SoxIlliniRob Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:36 am

    Just read WaPo poll of 18-29 yr olds. They report 55% of that group claims that they will definitely vote in this election. Another 25% say they might vote, or are likely to vote. Last midterm was 26% voter participation among this age group.

    I am going go out on a limb and say this is probably bad news for the red hats. I would be happy if it ends up 40-45% participation.
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    Post by blondy28 Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:18 am

    Saw that in Texas and Georgia the young person vote is up 500%.

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/midterms-2018-early-voting-young-100419993.html
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    Post by SoxIlliniRob Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:29 am

    Best part is that I think younger voters are least likely to show up in polls.
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    Post by SoxIlliniRob Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:29 am

    Best part is that I think younger voters are least likely to show up in polls.
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    Post by blondy28 Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:21 pm

    Rob, I saw on MSNBC that your district is showing as one "on the move".  I saw a poll today that Underwood is up by 7 over Hultgren now.  Saw another poll today that Beto and Cruz are tied.
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    Post by SoxIlliniRob Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:07 pm

    blondy28 wrote:Rob, I saw on MSNBC that your district is showing as one "on the move".  I saw a poll today that Underwood is up by 7 over Hultgren now.  Saw another poll today that Beto and Cruz are tied.

    She's running a really hard campaign (Underwood).  She is literally everywhere right now.  Doing meet and greets everywhere.  Knocking on doors.  Saying hello to people having lunch in restaurants.  I noticed Silver moved her from slight underdog to 7 in 10 favorite.  Still showing Roskam as slight favorite.
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    Post by blondy28 Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:09 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:Rob, I saw on MSNBC that your district is showing as one "on the move".  I saw a poll today that Underwood is up by 7 over Hultgren now.  Saw another poll today that Beto and Cruz are tied.

    She's running a really hard campaign (Underwood).  She is literally everywhere right now.  Doing meet and greets everywhere.  Knocking on doors.  Saying hello to people having lunch in restaurants.  I noticed Silver moved her from slight underdog to 7 in 10 favorite.  Still showing Roskam as slight favorite.

    538 is very confusing to me.  Underwood just moved ahead in one poll.  Of course, there are only 2 polls total on that race, but in the Lite, Classic, and Deluxe versions, they have Underwood's chances pretty high.  By contrast, Casten has been ahead in 3 of 6 polls, including the most recent 3, and 538 shows him favored in both the Lite and Deluxe versions, but Roskam with a slight edge in the Classic version.
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    Post by SoxIlliniRob Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:00 am

    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:Rob, I saw on MSNBC that your district is showing as one "on the move".  I saw a poll today that Underwood is up by 7 over Hultgren now.  Saw another poll today that Beto and Cruz are tied.

    She's running a really hard campaign (Underwood).  She is literally everywhere right now.  Doing meet and greets everywhere.  Knocking on doors.  Saying hello to people having lunch in restaurants.  I noticed Silver moved her from slight underdog to 7 in 10 favorite.  Still showing Roskam as slight favorite.

    538 is very confusing to me.  Underwood just moved ahead in one poll.  Of course, there are only 2 polls total on that race, but in the Lite, Classic, and Deluxe versions, they have Underwood's chances pretty high.  By contrast, Casten has been ahead in 3 of 6 polls, including the most recent 3, and 538 shows him favored in both the Lite and Deluxe versions, but Roskam with a slight edge in the Classic version.

    I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.  He has his nerdy analyses that he applies and he's usually pretty close to right.  These house races are really hard to predict, even with polling because they are such small sample sizes of voters.  For now, it at least appears that the House will be blue, but I'll not count any chickens until I see it live on the news.  2016 turned me into a cynic.
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    Post by blondy28 Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:12 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:Rob, I saw on MSNBC that your district is showing as one "on the move".  I saw a poll today that Underwood is up by 7 over Hultgren now.  Saw another poll today that Beto and Cruz are tied.

    She's running a really hard campaign (Underwood).  She is literally everywhere right now.  Doing meet and greets everywhere.  Knocking on doors.  Saying hello to people having lunch in restaurants.  I noticed Silver moved her from slight underdog to 7 in 10 favorite.  Still showing Roskam as slight favorite.

    538 is very confusing to me.  Underwood just moved ahead in one poll.  Of course, there are only 2 polls total on that race, but in the Lite, Classic, and Deluxe versions, they have Underwood's chances pretty high.  By contrast, Casten has been ahead in 3 of 6 polls, including the most recent 3, and 538 shows him favored in both the Lite and Deluxe versions, but Roskam with a slight edge in the Classic version.

    I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.  He has his nerdy analyses that he applies and he's usually pretty close to right.  These house races are really hard to predict, even with polling because they are such small sample sizes of voters.  For now, it at least appears that the House will be blue, but I'll not count any chickens until I see it live on the news.  2016 turned me into a cynic.

    Seeing that Randy Hultgren has announced a press conference for this afternoon to discuss Lauren Underwood's time as a nurse.
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    Post by SoxIlliniRob Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:57 pm

    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:Rob, I saw on MSNBC that your district is showing as one "on the move".  I saw a poll today that Underwood is up by 7 over Hultgren now.  Saw another poll today that Beto and Cruz are tied.

    She's running a really hard campaign (Underwood).  She is literally everywhere right now.  Doing meet and greets everywhere.  Knocking on doors.  Saying hello to people having lunch in restaurants.  I noticed Silver moved her from slight underdog to 7 in 10 favorite.  Still showing Roskam as slight favorite.

    538 is very confusing to me.  Underwood just moved ahead in one poll.  Of course, there are only 2 polls total on that race, but in the Lite, Classic, and Deluxe versions, they have Underwood's chances pretty high.  By contrast, Casten has been ahead in 3 of 6 polls, including the most recent 3, and 538 shows him favored in both the Lite and Deluxe versions, but Roskam with a slight edge in the Classic version.

    I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.  He has his nerdy analyses that he applies and he's usually pretty close to right.  These house races are really hard to predict, even with polling because they are such small sample sizes of voters.  For now, it at least appears that the House will be blue, but I'll not count any chickens until I see it live on the news.  2016 turned me into a cynic.

    Seeing that Randy Hultgren has announced a press conference for this afternoon to discuss Lauren Underwood's time as a nurse.

    Ha.  He's nervous.
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    Post by SoxIlliniRob Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:56 pm

    Looks like final game day odds are going to be about 87.5% chance that the House turns blue and an 18-19% chance that the Senate turns blue.  I believe the House is probably a done deal.  Silver notes that the only chance that it stays red is if almost all undecideds vote red or if there's some kind of polling error of about 2-3%.  My guess is that if there's polling error it might be the other way, because I suspect millennials aren't getting polled as often due to not having a hard line phone and are possibly not being fully assimilated into the polling data.  This is only a hunch.  I'm not making some kind of Al in Cal prediction that Romney is gonna kick Obama's ass and Romney is going to win 43 states.  Just saying it seems pretty likely.  As for the senate, I think there's still a small chance it goes blue.  If there's any kind of polling error the other way (giving dems more support) of about 2-3%, then it's possible that Dems win AZ, NV and TN, while losing only ND.  That would turn the senate blue, assuming all other states go as expected.  This would be a huge surprise, however.  My gut says that Repubs will gain one senate seat and take a 52-48 edge.
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    Post by SoxIlliniRob Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:03 pm

    Interesting data I just read.  Make of it what you will....

    Last midterm election in 2014, voters under age of 30 accounted for 1.05 million votes.  5.2% of the total.

    This year, they have accounted for over 3 million early votes.  8.4% of the overall early vote total.

    That's fairly significant.
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    Post by SoxIlliniRob Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:14 pm

    It'll be interesting to see the crisis that Dems will undergo if they win the overall House vote count by let's say 7%, but still remain in a slight minority in overall seats.

    After Kavanaugh, Trump winning with a minority of the votes, Garland, Citizens United, SCOTUS appointing Bush president vs. Gore even when Gore even had the most votes in Florida, and with the GOP senate majority being representative of only about 40-42% of the nation's citizens, the Democratic party is on the edge of losing faith in our system, and for good reason.  

    I know it's become Bobby's thing to pick on Tim for being too hysterical in this realm, but if this pans out as I have described above, we're going to see a certain pall of gloom and doom fall over the Democratic party that is going to be really ugly to watch.  We'll then have all three chambers holding power despite receiving a minority of American votes, along with SCOTUS allowing them to write legislation and make executive decisions that further benefit their power.  Most of the expert types suggest that the Dems need somewhere between a 6 and 10% voter majority in order to take control of the House.  That's just not right, and it's why gerrymandering is the biggest issue to me, and it's why I'll vote straight Dem in Illinois (despite boogeyman Madigan) until gerrymandering is fixed.  My biggest concern right now is to be able to gerrymander the state to allow zero GOP districts, until they change the pathetic rules of the game.  If states like Ohio and Texas and others can make it nearly impossible for Dems to win seats there, then we loser Dems need to fight fire with fire.

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