5 posters

Moving too far to the left

SoxIlliniRob: Bova!; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2017-05-05
Age : 58
Location : Saint Charles, IL

Post n°1

Moving too far to the left

by SoxIlliniRob Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:40 am

I've heard a lot of references to the Progressive Movement moving too far to the left. I find myself wondering what the true left is anymore, or the true right. Is the true right "Trumpism" in all of its glory? Or something more akin to the modestly conservative Aloha? Is the true left where Bernie Sanders currently resides? Or is it something more moderate?

I ask this because it seems recently that when folks on the left go REALLY left, such as where Bernie went during the primaries, or where that Cortez lady in NY went, or where that Dem Gov Gillum went, they win or at least have a very good showing. There appears to me to be a quiet (or not so quiet) movement to the left by a large swath of Americans. Not sure if it's coming from people like me, or more from the youth of this country...High schooler age up through, let's say, 35. The Millennials I know are mostly very progressive, wanting single payer, free college, higher min wage, and various other pinko commie goodies. Seeing as how most of the rest of the developed countries of this world are already in the place that we seem to be headed, I'm beginning to think we're witnessing the last gasp of Reagan conservatism, and the beginnings of a vast movement into a stronger brand of progressivism. This might be just stupid, wishful thinking by me, but I believe I'm seeing movement that's building and has been kicked in the ass by this orange moron president of ours. Seems to me that all of these Dems are being so careful about making their words make them not seem too progressive, and not too socialist, but when they just throw down the gauntlet and let themselves go in that direction, they drum up a bunch of excitement and support.

It goes without saying that we're going to eventually go in a more leftist direction. We always have and likely always will. I'm beginning to believe that the 2020 election may be one where Dems drop their pants and go full progressive leftist and then hope that's enough to get over the hump. Won't surprise me at all. Maybe they'll wait another four years, but it seems that's where they are heading. Starting to think we might have a faulty idea of what constitutes "too far left."

sharpy

sharpy: Fanboy; Posts : 915
Join date : 2017-05-10

Post n°2

Re: Moving too far to the left

by sharpy Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:21 pm

I thought the country was leaping and bounding to the left with the election of Obama - which I never thought would happen, but did. But now, I am convinced that until the issue of racism is settled - whether it be the old white folks die off, or somehow some lightning bolt comes down and makes people realize that in reality, we are all in this together so stop living for the afterlife and just make this one better, this battle of progressive and conservative is far from being settled, and progressive-ism was dealt a head rattling blow with the appointment of 2 very conservative judges (and maybe more before it is all said and done) that are young enough to delay and/or stop anything the millenniums may want to do for 25-30 yrs -any leftward leaning movement may take a very long time.

Now, if the GOP holds the House and the Senate after November 8, I believe we will not have a presidential election in 2020, with Trump claiming that due to the "millions of illegal votes it can't possibly be fair, so we can't have one" - unless people take to the streets - so then we will see how the milleniums feel about what they believe in...

Rob, do you think you would have the same view of the milleniums if you were living in Arkansas? or Texas? or Mississippi? and instead of your kid pitching baseballs he was pitching horse-shows, chewing chaw and kidding with his buddies about "goin coon hunting"?

SoxIlliniRob

SoxIlliniRob: Bova!; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2017-05-05
Age : 58
Location : Saint Charles, IL

Post n°3

Re: Moving too far to the left

by SoxIlliniRob Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:55 pm

I don't know, Tim. I just get the sense that millennials are generally very progressive leaning. Surely not as much in certain states.

if the GOP holds the senate and house, then I lean toward agreeing with you that Trump will surely either try postponing the election in 2020, or at least spend a year sullying it up with claims of voter fraud beforehand so that perhaps he and Congress can attempt to block a result they don't like in the aftermath. Honestly, if the GOP holds onto control of both chambers, you are going to see a Trump that is untethered in ways you or I have never even imagined. You'll see an incredible amount of executive orders. I suspect you'll see a dropping of the filibuster rule so that they can pass whatever the hell they want. Anything challenged in SCOTUS will result in decisions that go red. It'll be fucking crazy and we'll see the kind of tension in this country that Cream has been warning about (whereby perhaps violence breaks out widespread).

That said, I strongly believe that the Dems will seize control of the House, short of some kind of additional meddling from Russia or whatnot. They sure need to do at least that, because things are shaping up whereby they may be blocked out from being able to ever win back anything if the GOP can put more blockades in place like voter suppression programs and so forth.

I gotta hand it to the GOP for how talented they are at playing the dirty game and doing it successfully. While Obama had a massive edge in the Senate and House, the GOP was able to block almost everything and anything. GOP finds a way to block an Obama SCOTUS pick. GOP finds ways to win presidential elections with popular vote minorities. GOP has a House edge even when the Dems get the majority of the the House votes across the country. Shit, I just saw a Nate Silver analysis that said that the Dems will need an approximately 5.2 to 5.4% vote majority on Congressional House votes in order to take control of the House. Why? Because the GOP was smart enough to take steps to enable them to gerrymander the shit out of the entire country. Gotta admit, the GOP knows how to play the game better.

SoxIlliniRob

SoxIlliniRob: Bova!; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2017-05-05
Age : 58
Location : Saint Charles, IL

Post n°4

Re: Moving too far to the left

by SoxIlliniRob Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:59 pm

I see another super far lefty Dem person won a primary in Massachusetts today over a 20 yr seat holder. Like I said before, I'm not sure what constitutes too far to the left anymore. I don't think the incumbent had a bad approval rating or bad history...I am just starting to think that the part of the electorate that's somewhat excitable right now is very far left or the very far right. Whenever the left gets one of these super lefty types, the masses all get worked up and go out and vote. Starting to make me wonder if the Dems need to rethink how they market to their base because it's beginning to look like being VERY progressive is the way to get the apathetic folks off of their asses.

SoxIlliniRob

SoxIlliniRob: Bova!; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2017-05-05
Age : 58
Location : Saint Charles, IL

Post n°5

Re: Moving too far to the left

by SoxIlliniRob Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:13 am

Speaking of moving too far to the left, why would the left want to ever impeach and remove Trump when it's way more fun watching him crap his pants every day?

alohafri

alohafri: Bova!; Posts : 1768
Join date : 2017-05-05
Age : 57
Location : Between Sarah Michelle Gellar's Legs

Post n°6

Re: Moving too far to the left

by alohafri Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:46 am

SoxIlliniRob wrote:Speaking of moving too far to the left, why would the left want to ever impeach and remove Trump when it's way more fun watching him crap his pants every day?

Because some people see him as doing long-term and short-term harm to the country and they don't want it to continue. Some people still believe in country over party.

SoxIlliniRob

SoxIlliniRob: Bova!; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2017-05-05
Age : 58
Location : Saint Charles, IL

Post n°7

Re: Moving too far to the left

by SoxIlliniRob Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:00 am

alohafri wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:Speaking of moving too far to the left, why would the left want to ever impeach and remove Trump when it's way more fun watching him crap his pants every day?

Because some people see him as doing long-term and short-term harm to the country and they don't want it to continue. Some people still believe in country over party.

I know, Kevin. I'm being a bit facetious, but I gotta say I am enjoying watching the idiot squirm, while also cringing at the harm our country is enduring. Something tells me that the people in power on the left are going to be inclined to leave this dope in office until they believe he is doing objective harm. That may bite them, since sometimes the harm being done isn't in clear view.

joepoe

joepoe: Not a Fanboy; Posts : 30
Join date : 2017-05-05

Post n°8

Re: Moving too far to the left

by joepoe Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:36 am

*sigh* here we go with \"suspending elections" again. Bush was going to do that in 2004, remember? And he was going to bomb Iran too. Of course you don't remember. Now Sharpy thinks elections will be suspended. Biden says black folks are going to be put in chains. Can the vitriol be at least close to some factual basis? lolHow about being pissed about a booming economy? Lowest jobless claims in 50 years? Record low black and hispanic unemployment? Inflation under control. Fed raising rates slowly to account for the reversal of QE's. *sigh*sharpy wrote:I thought the country was leaping and bounding to the left with the election of Obama - which I never thought would happen, but did. But now, I am convinced that until the issue of racism is settled - whether it be the old white folks die off, or somehow some lightning bolt comes down and makes people realize that in reality, we are all in this together so stop living for the afterlife and just make this one better, this battle of progressive and conservative is far from being settled, and progressive-ism was dealt a head rattling blow with the appointment of 2 very conservative judges (and maybe more before it is all said and done) that are young enough to delay and/or stop anything the millenniums may want to do for 25-30 yrs -any leftward leaning movement may take a very long time.

Now, if the GOP holds the House and the Senate after November 8, I believe we will not have a presidential election in 2020, with Trump claiming that due to the "millions of illegal votes it can't possibly be fair, so we can't have one" - unless people take to the streets - so then we will see how the milleniums feel about what they believe in...

Rob, do you think you would have the same view of the milleniums if you were living in Arkansas? or Texas? or Mississippi? and instead of your kid pitching baseballs he was pitching horse-shows, chewing chaw and kidding with his buddies about "goin coon hunting"?

alohafri

alohafri: Bova!; Posts : 1768
Join date : 2017-05-05
Age : 57
Location : Between Sarah Michelle Gellar's Legs

Post n°9

Re: Moving too far to the left

by alohafri Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:36 pm

joepoe wrote:

*sigh* here we go with \"suspending elections" again. Bush was going to do that in 2004, remember? And he was going to bomb Iran too. Of course you don't remember. Now Sharpy thinks elections will be suspended. Biden says black folks are going to be put in chains. Can the vitriol be at least close to some factual basis? lolHow about being pissed about a booming economy? Lowest jobless claims in 50 years? Record low black and hispanic unemployment? Inflation under control. Fed raising rates slowly to account for the reversal of QE's. *sigh*sharpy wrote:I thought the country was leaping and bounding to the left with the election of Obama - which I never thought would happen, but did. But now, I am convinced that until the issue of racism is settled - whether it be the old white folks die off, or somehow some lightning bolt comes down and makes people realize that in reality, we are all in this together so stop living for the afterlife and just make this one better, this battle of progressive and conservative is far from being settled, and progressive-ism was dealt a head rattling blow with the appointment of 2 very conservative judges (and maybe more before it is all said and done) that are young enough to delay and/or stop anything the millenniums may want to do for 25-30 yrs -any leftward leaning movement may take a very long time.

Now, if the GOP holds the House and the Senate after November 8, I believe we will not have a presidential election in 2020, with Trump claiming that due to the "millions of illegal votes it can't possibly be fair, so we can't have one" - unless people take to the streets - so then we will see how the milleniums feel about what they believe in...

Rob, do you think you would have the same view of the milleniums if you were living in Arkansas? or Texas? or Mississippi? and instead of your kid pitching baseballs he was pitching horse-shows, chewing chaw and kidding with his buddies about "goin coon hunting"?

Joe, I think if people were truly living for the afterlife, we wouldn't have half the problems we have today. People would be nicer to each other, violence and crime wouldn't be as big of an issue, etc. My afterlife isn't based on what you do, but it may very well be based on how I treat you.

SoxIlliniRob

SoxIlliniRob: Bova!; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2017-05-05
Age : 58
Location : Saint Charles, IL

Post n°10

Re: Moving too far to the left

by SoxIlliniRob Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:55 pm

Never heard that about Bush, and am not jumping to that conclusion now, but I don't rule out anything in terms of what this orange goon might try. I'd say that if the GOP were to somehow maintain control of the House and the Senate after this upcoming midterm, the Trump will begin feeling extremely empowered, as if he can do nothing that will end up costing him. Does that mean he'll try to cancel elections? Maybe. Maybe not. Wouldn't put it past him to try floating it to see if the GOP congress will check him on it.

I don't think most people with a basic understanding of economics look at the current economic statistics and think they are "because of" Trump any more than the 7 year bull run from 2009 to 2016 was "because of" Obama. Trump very luckily stepped into a steady, growing economy and is getting to lay claim to additional gains, but if he gets to lay such a claim, won't he then have to accept blame for the inevitable recession that we'll eventually have, possibly during his run? I tend not to blame or credit presidents for such things. We were already near record low black/hispanic unemployment when Trump took office....not because of Obama, but just BECAUSE. We were at near full employment on Trump's first day in office...not because of Obama. Just because. The Fed is doing what they always do in situations like these. That hasn't stopped knucklehead Trump from trying to get them to not raise rates.

blondy28

blondy28: Bova!; Posts : 1804
Join date : 2017-05-06

Post n°11

Re: Moving too far to the left

by blondy28 Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:26 pm

SoxIlliniRob wrote:Never heard that about Bush, and am not jumping to that conclusion now, but I don't rule out anything in terms of what this orange goon might try. I'd say that if the GOP were to somehow maintain control of the House and the Senate after this upcoming midterm, the Trump will begin feeling extremely empowered, as if he can do nothing that will end up costing him. Does that mean he'll try to cancel elections? Maybe. Maybe not. Wouldn't put it past him to try floating it to see if the GOP congress will check him on it.

I don't think most people with a basic understanding of economics look at the current economic statistics and think they are "because of" Trump any more than the 7 year bull run from 2009 to 2016 was "because of" Obama. Trump very luckily stepped into a steady, growing economy and is getting to lay claim to additional gains, but if he gets to lay such a claim, won't he then have to accept blame for the inevitable recession that we'll eventually have, possibly during his run? I tend not to blame or credit presidents for such things. We were already near record low black/hispanic unemployment when Trump took office....not because of Obama, but just BECAUSE. We were at near full employment on Trump's first day in office...not because of Obama. Just because. The Fed is doing what they always do in situations like these. That hasn't stopped knucklehead Trump from trying to get them to not raise rates.

I've never heard that about Bush, either. I think the only reason people are speculating about it now is because there was a poll in which 52% of Republicans or "lean Republican" would support it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/08/10/52-percent-republicans-would-support-postponing-2020-election/555769001/

I think it's interesting that you're responding as though the person you're debating even agrees that there was a 7-year bull run under Obama (let alone whether or not he had anything to do with it). When Trump was campaigning and unemployment was at 4.8%, he said "of course, it's much higher...it's really about 40%". When he was in office a couple months and BRAGGED about the unemployment numbers, he and his followers, naturally, totally believed those numbers. Trumps a total genius...he brought unemployment down from 40% to 4.5% in just a few months, dontcha know!

SoxIlliniRob

SoxIlliniRob: Bova!; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2017-05-05
Age : 58
Location : Saint Charles, IL

Post n°12

Re: Moving too far to the left

by SoxIlliniRob Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:36 pm

blondy28 wrote:

I've never heard that about Bush, either. I think the only reason people are speculating about it now is because there was a poll in which 52% of Republicans or "lean Republican" would support it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/08/10/52-percent-republicans-would-support-postponing-2020-election/555769001/

I think it's interesting that you're responding as though the person you're debating even agrees that there was a 7-year bull run under Obama (let alone whether or not he had anything to do with it). When Trump was campaigning and unemployment was at 4.8%, he said "of course, it's much higher...it's really about 40%". When he was in office a couple months and BRAGGED about the unemployment numbers, he and his followers, naturally, totally believed those numbers. Trumps a total genius...he brought unemployment down from 40% to 4.5% in just a few months, dontcha know!

I assume Joe has a brokerage account or 401k and, if he does, he ought to know that our portfolios went gangbusters during the Obama years, and continued to do the same until the end of Trump's first full year. Since this spring, it's been very flat or even down some. Yeah, I love how the True Unemployment rate during Obama was 40%, and now it's record low. I don't personally necessarily think Obama had much or anything to do with the bull run. Cyclical economic waves. We were due for a recession. We were due for a long recovery. I say "long recovery" because of how deep the recession was. Now, we're due for a recession. This year? Next year? 2020? It'll knock on our door sooner or later. If it comes in 2019, is it pinned to Trump? Not by me, but then again I don't pin the current economy on him either.

sharpy

sharpy: Fanboy; Posts : 915
Join date : 2017-05-10

Post n°13

Re: Moving too far to the left

by sharpy Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:30 pm

*sigh* here we go with \"suspending elections" again. Bush was going to do that in 2004, remember? And he was going to bomb Iran too. Of course you don't remember. Now Sharpy thinks elections will be suspended. Biden says black folks are going to be put in chains. Can the vitriol be at least close to some factual basis? lolHow about being pissed about a booming economy? Lowest jobless claims in 50 years? Record low black and hispanic unemployment? Inflation under control. Fed raising rates slowly to account for the reversal of QE's. *sigh*sharpy wrote:

Most republicans polled would agree to hold the election if trump said it wasn't fair - and the percent were even higher if the GOP congress backed the measure

David Hogg has stated the NRA would back trump canceling the election and has warned people that the fall of 2018 may be the last election in our lifetime

Please site a reference for the bush in 2004 comment. Searched the Web and nothing came up about Bush thinking of cancelling the election - I'm sure you wouldn't make something like that up just to be condenscending so if you can please send a link I'll apologize

In his first month in office Trump and a cabinet member both mentioned that the First Amendment may need some revisions ...and of course, lets not forget the comment about who the great leader of North Korea loves his people, is a great leader for his people, and is envious of how his people listen to him

- you do know that wages for the working class are stagnant or dipping whereas CEO salaries have increased over 40% in the last decade - in Ohio, per the paper today, the average CEO salary is 200 times the average employee salary - however, I suspect most republicans are proud of that. So I guess if you are heavy into the stock market, you are sitting on a cloud ….if not, well tough shit

There is no defending this president - he is a vile and disgusting human being and he goes against and speaks against everything this country has supposedly stood for and represented to the world. If Russia attacked Western Europe, are you completely convince that trump would come to the aid or join the war against Putin?

Lets hope Lincoln was right that "Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature"

blondy28

blondy28: Bova!; Posts : 1804
Join date : 2017-05-06

Post n°14

Re: Moving too far to the left

by blondy28 Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:34 pm

sharpy wrote:*sigh* here we go with \"suspending elections" again. Bush was going to do that in 2004, remember? And he was going to bomb Iran too. Of course you don't remember. Now Sharpy thinks elections will be suspended. Biden says black folks are going to be put in chains. Can the vitriol be at least close to some factual basis? lolHow about being pissed about a booming economy? Lowest jobless claims in 50 years? Record low black and hispanic unemployment? Inflation under control. Fed raising rates slowly to account for the reversal of QE's. *sigh*sharpy wrote:

Most republicans polled would agree to hold the election if trump said it wasn't fair - and the percent were even higher if the GOP congress backed the measure

David Hogg has stated the NRA would back trump canceling the election and has warned people that the fall of 2018 may be the last election in our lifetime

Please site a reference for the bush in 2004 comment. Searched the Web and nothing came up about Bush thinking of cancelling the election - I'm sure you wouldn't make something like that up just to be condenscending so if you can please send a link I'll apologize

In his first month in office Trump and a cabinet member both mentioned that the First Amendment may need some revisions ...and of course, lets not forget the comment about who the great leader of North Korea loves his people, is a great leader for his people, and is envious of how his people listen to him

- you do know that wages for the working class are stagnant or dipping whereas CEO salaries have increased over 40% in the last decade - in Ohio, per the paper today, the average CEO salary is 200 times the average employee salary - however, I suspect most republicans are proud of that. So I guess if you are heavy into the stock market, you are sitting on a cloud ….if not, well tough shit

There is no defending this president - he is a vile and disgusting human being and he goes against and speaks against everything this country has supposedly stood for and represented to the world. If Russia attacked Western Europe, are you completely convince that trump would come to the aid or join the war against Putin?

Lets hope Lincoln was right that "Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature"

I feel fairly certain he would join Putin's side.

Re: Moving too far to the left

by Sponsored content

Fanboy Central

Moving too far to the left

Moving too far to the left

Re: Moving too far to the left

Re: Moving too far to the left

Re: Moving too far to the left

Re: Moving too far to the left

Re: Moving too far to the left

Re: Moving too far to the left

Re: Moving too far to the left

Re: Moving too far to the left

Re: Moving too far to the left

Re: Moving too far to the left

Re: Moving too far to the left

Re: Moving too far to the left

Re: Moving too far to the left

Re: Moving too far to the left

Similar topics

Similar topics