Which two of my kids won't be able to go back to school?

So tax scam worse than I thought.   Seems as though our taxes are going up to the tune of what it costs us for a year of tuition at Lake Forest.   We won't be able to pay for them to go back to school. Gab and Jake have been at Harper, so community college options will have already been exhausted at the end of next semester.   We will only be able to afford one kid's tuition.  Making America Unemployable Again.

I want you to know that this new tax bill is not going to benefit our beloved President at all. He even said on the campaign trail that he's gonna be unpopular amongst his rich friends. 

TOGETHER...we're making America great again!! 

blondy28 wrote:So tax scam worse than I thought.   Seems as though our taxes are going up to the tune of what it costs us for a year of tuition at Lake Forest.   We won't be able to pay for them to go back to school. Gab and Jake have been at Harper, so community college options will have already been exhausted at the end of next semester.   We will only be able to afford one kid's tuition.  Making America Unemployable Again.

Yeah, but when you inherit millions, it'll be tax free.

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

blondy28 wrote:So tax scam worse than I thought.   Seems as though our taxes are going up to the tune of what it costs us for a year of tuition at Lake Forest.   We won't be able to pay for them to go back to school. Gab and Jake have been at Harper, so community college options will have already been exhausted at the end of next semester.   We will only be able to afford one kid's tuition.  Making America Unemployable Again.

Yeah, but when you inherit millions, it'll be tax free.

So there's that.

This is the best calculator I've found of the new plan.  Our taxes are going up 114%

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-new-trump-tax-calculator-what-do-you-owe-2017-10-26?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo

More than doubling?

SoxIlliniRob wrote:More than doubling?

Yep.  With deductions and exemptions, our taxes in 2016 were $6,409.  According to this calculator, using 2017 figures (yes, I know it's effective in 2018, but I gotta use the actuals I know) our taxes will be $13,669.

Looks like I'd get a $5700 tax cut if all of my income numbers from last year were to stay the same this year.  Woo hoo.  I really like this Trump guy.

SoxIlliniRob wrote:Looks like I'd get a $5700 tax cut if all of my income numbers from last year were to stay the same this year.  Woo hoo.  I really like this Trump guy.

How do these idiots not come up with a plan where middle class people like me don't end up paying 114% more in taxes?  I mean, seriously...I'd have taken a wash.  Or a slight increase.  But mine go up 114% so we could eliminate the estate tax?  WTF?

blondy28 wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:Looks like I'd get a $5700 tax cut if all of my income numbers from last year were to stay the same this year.  Woo hoo.  I really like this Trump guy.

How do these idiots not come up with a plan where middle class people like me don't end up paying 114% more in taxes?  I mean, seriously...I'd have taken a wash.  Or a slight increase.  But mine go up 114% so we could eliminate the estate tax?  WTF?

Do you really need to ask?  This bill was written primarily by millionaire and billionaire lobbyists.  It was a payback for all of the money they have given to the GOP campaigns over the past many years.  This isn't conjecture.  it's fact.  Several Repubs even admitted it, with Lindsay Graham standing out as the most obvious one.  Now that they did this, they face some blowback from voters, but their donors will now be willing to dump absolute shitloads of new money into their campaigns to help them.  

This isn't a government of the people anymore.  We've more or less become an oligarchy.  Rich dudes have the power.  They are writing our bills and laws.  Senators openly vote in defiance with the wishes of large majorities of their constituents.  Look at how they voted for this tax bill and for the ACA repeal when the public sentiment against either vote was in the range of 2 to 1, or 3 to 1.  There is no fear of going against constituents' wishes.  

I suspect that 2018 midterms are going to give the GOP a setback.  Possibly a horrible setback.  2020 should be more of the same.  Our party has the next 3 years to get its head out of its ass and find a fucking message that can be clearly conveyed.  They pissed all over themselves with the Hillary campaign.  Honestly, the Dems have public sentiment clearly on their side on almost every God damned issue, both culturally and economically.  Just pick and issue and the public leans toward the Dems.  And still, they can't figure out how to message that into a clear voting majority or messaging victory.  It's absolutely amazing to me.  They are a party of total fuckups.  Fuckup number one is allowing Pelosi to remain at the helm of the Dems in the House.  Is that the best they can do?  WTF?  

Just saw yesterday where Trump walked into Mar a Lago and everyone cheered and clapped for him and he looked at them and said "I just made all of you richer."  Yes, folks, this is your Republican party now.  Making rich fucks even richer at the behest of our younger generation.  And yet, the Dems won't figure out how to use this to their advantage.

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

blondy28 wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:Looks like I'd get a $5700 tax cut if all of my income numbers from last year were to stay the same this year.  Woo hoo.  I really like this Trump guy.

How do these idiots not come up with a plan where middle class people like me don't end up paying 114% more in taxes?  I mean, seriously...I'd have taken a wash.  Or a slight increase.  But mine go up 114% so we could eliminate the estate tax?  WTF?

Do you really need to ask?  This bill was written primarily by millionaire and billionaire lobbyists.  It was a payback for all of the money they have given to the GOP campaigns over the past many years.  This isn't conjecture.  it's fact.  Several Repubs even admitted it, with Lindsay Graham standing out as the most obvious one.  Now that they did this, they face some blowback from voters, but their donors will now be willing to dump absolute shitloads of new money into their campaigns to help them.  

This isn't a government of the people anymore.  We've more or less become an oligarchy.  Rich dudes have the power.  They are writing our bills and laws.  Senators openly vote in defiance with the wishes of large majorities of their constituents.  Look at how they voted for this tax bill and for the ACA repeal when the public sentiment against either vote was in the range of 2 to 1, or 3 to 1.  There is no fear of going against constituents' wishes.  

I suspect that 2018 midterms are going to give the GOP a setback.  Possibly a horrible setback.  2020 should be more of the same.  Our party has the next 3 years to get its head out of its ass and find a fucking message that can be clearly conveyed.  They pissed all over themselves with the Hillary campaign.  Honestly, the Dems have public sentiment clearly on their side on almost every God damned issue, both culturally and economically.  Just pick and issue and the public leans toward the Dems.  And still, they can't figure out how to message that into a clear voting majority or messaging victory.  It's absolutely amazing to me.  They are a party of total fuckups.  Fuckup number one is allowing Pelosi to remain at the helm of the Dems in the House.  Is that the best they can do?  WTF?  

Just saw yesterday where Trump walked into Mar a Lago and everyone cheered and clapped for him and he looked at them and said "I just made all of you richer."  Yes, folks, this is your Republican party now.  Making rich fucks even richer at the behest of our younger generation.  And yet, the Dems won't figure out how to use this to their advantage.

I think so much of this relies on people being stupid...or, at the very least, unengaged.  And I'm not talking about the uneducated.  Seriously, the conversations I've had with very smart people who are very successful and they don't seem to get it.  One comment:  "If you're losing $30,000 in  deductions then you must be a millionaire...do you live in a mansion?!".   They don't get that the biggest chunk of that...the personal exemption...isn't money you earned and/or paid...that I merely had been exempted from paying tax on $20,050 of my income.  They think I paid $20,000 to something and they just eliminated the write-off.  And Dale's brother...masters from Kellogg...a 40 year career in banking...and I have to explain to him how the fact that they didn't end up eliminating the medical deduction is meaningless because I don't have enough in write-offs to itemize due to the SALT cap...my deductions are now less than $24,000, so I'll be taking the standard.  Then my good friend...the millionaire who lives on Lake Minnetonka...when I tell her that I'm losing the personal exemption for a family of 5, says "I thought they were doubling that to $24,000"?

blondy28 wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

blondy28 wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:Looks like I'd get a $5700 tax cut if all of my income numbers from last year were to stay the same this year.  Woo hoo.  I really like this Trump guy.

How do these idiots not come up with a plan where middle class people like me don't end up paying 114% more in taxes?  I mean, seriously...I'd have taken a wash.  Or a slight increase.  But mine go up 114% so we could eliminate the estate tax?  WTF?

Do you really need to ask?  This bill was written primarily by millionaire and billionaire lobbyists.  It was a payback for all of the money they have given to the GOP campaigns over the past many years.  This isn't conjecture.  it's fact.  Several Repubs even admitted it, with Lindsay Graham standing out as the most obvious one.  Now that they did this, they face some blowback from voters, but their donors will now be willing to dump absolute shitloads of new money into their campaigns to help them.  

This isn't a government of the people anymore.  We've more or less become an oligarchy.  Rich dudes have the power.  They are writing our bills and laws.  Senators openly vote in defiance with the wishes of large majorities of their constituents.  Look at how they voted for this tax bill and for the ACA repeal when the public sentiment against either vote was in the range of 2 to 1, or 3 to 1.  There is no fear of going against constituents' wishes.  

I suspect that 2018 midterms are going to give the GOP a setback.  Possibly a horrible setback.  2020 should be more of the same.  Our party has the next 3 years to get its head out of its ass and find a fucking message that can be clearly conveyed.  They pissed all over themselves with the Hillary campaign.  Honestly, the Dems have public sentiment clearly on their side on almost every God damned issue, both culturally and economically.  Just pick and issue and the public leans toward the Dems.  And still, they can't figure out how to message that into a clear voting majority or messaging victory.  It's absolutely amazing to me.  They are a party of total fuckups.  Fuckup number one is allowing Pelosi to remain at the helm of the Dems in the House.  Is that the best they can do?  WTF?  

Just saw yesterday where Trump walked into Mar a Lago and everyone cheered and clapped for him and he looked at them and said "I just made all of you richer."  Yes, folks, this is your Republican party now.  Making rich fucks even richer at the behest of our younger generation.  And yet, the Dems won't figure out how to use this to their advantage.

I think so much of this relies on people being stupid...or, at the very least, unengaged.  And I'm not talking about the uneducated.  Seriously, the conversations I've had with very smart people who are very successful and they don't seem to get it.  One comment:  "If you're losing $30,000 in  deductions then you must be a millionaire...do you live in a mansion?!".   They don't get that the biggest chunk of that...the personal exemption...isn't money you earned and/or paid...that I merely had been exempted from paying tax on $20,050 of my income.  They think I paid $20,000 to something and they just eliminated the write-off.  And Dale's brother...masters from Kellogg...a 40 year career in banking...and I have to explain to him how the fact that they didn't end up eliminating the medical deduction is meaningless because I don't have enough in write-offs to itemize due to the SALT cap...my deductions are now less than $24,000, so I'll be taking the standard.  Then my good friend...the millionaire who lives on Lake Minnetonka...when I tell her that I'm losing the personal exemption for a family of 5, says "I thought they were doubling that to $24,000"?

My millionaire buddy in Inverness is ecstatic.  His greatest concern in the last couple of years has been that he has over 11 million dollars in net worth and <gasp!> his kids might have to pay some filthy tax on some of their inheritance.  Oh no!  Now he can sleep at night, I guess.  All of the world's problems have been solved.  

Yeah, I'm not sure very many people grasp the effects of the new tax law yet.  I'm pretty good at grasping that stuff because of my career and even I'm a bit fuzzy on it.  Now that there's a SALT cap, and not many other things are deductible, I'm not sure how many people are really going to qualify for itemizing.  Can't imagine that I'll be itemizing.  When I do the calculator, it shows me getting a bigger refund taking the standard deduction.  Just seems to me that every time we change the tax laws, we further encourage the hoarding of profit and cash, instead of encouraging the widening of the middle class.  

I know that there are a few conservatives that are jumping around because Wells announced something like 200 million bucks being dished out in $1,000 bonuses.  That's great and all, but this tax change will mean something like $10 billion more to Wells, or maybe more.  If anyone thinks that handing 10 billion to some giant corporation and then having them share 2% of it with employees is going to widen the middle class, then they are hopelessly ignorant about economics.  Taking $1.5 trillion out of fed revenues to give primarily to the rich is not a recipe for a thriving economy and a larger middle class.

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

blondy28 wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

blondy28 wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:Looks like I'd get a $5700 tax cut if all of my income numbers from last year were to stay the same this year.  Woo hoo.  I really like this Trump guy.

How do these idiots not come up with a plan where middle class people like me don't end up paying 114% more in taxes?  I mean, seriously...I'd have taken a wash.  Or a slight increase.  But mine go up 114% so we could eliminate the estate tax?  WTF?

Do you really need to ask?  This bill was written primarily by millionaire and billionaire lobbyists.  It was a payback for all of the money they have given to the GOP campaigns over the past many years.  This isn't conjecture.  it's fact.  Several Repubs even admitted it, with Lindsay Graham standing out as the most obvious one.  Now that they did this, they face some blowback from voters, but their donors will now be willing to dump absolute shitloads of new money into their campaigns to help them.  

This isn't a government of the people anymore.  We've more or less become an oligarchy.  Rich dudes have the power.  They are writing our bills and laws.  Senators openly vote in defiance with the wishes of large majorities of their constituents.  Look at how they voted for this tax bill and for the ACA repeal when the public sentiment against either vote was in the range of 2 to 1, or 3 to 1.  There is no fear of going against constituents' wishes.  

I suspect that 2018 midterms are going to give the GOP a setback.  Possibly a horrible setback.  2020 should be more of the same.  Our party has the next 3 years to get its head out of its ass and find a fucking message that can be clearly conveyed.  They pissed all over themselves with the Hillary campaign.  Honestly, the Dems have public sentiment clearly on their side on almost every God damned issue, both culturally and economically.  Just pick and issue and the public leans toward the Dems.  And still, they can't figure out how to message that into a clear voting majority or messaging victory.  It's absolutely amazing to me.  They are a party of total fuckups.  Fuckup number one is allowing Pelosi to remain at the helm of the Dems in the House.  Is that the best they can do?  WTF?  

Just saw yesterday where Trump walked into Mar a Lago and everyone cheered and clapped for him and he looked at them and said "I just made all of you richer."  Yes, folks, this is your Republican party now.  Making rich fucks even richer at the behest of our younger generation.  And yet, the Dems won't figure out how to use this to their advantage.

I think so much of this relies on people being stupid...or, at the very least, unengaged.  And I'm not talking about the uneducated.  Seriously, the conversations I've had with very smart people who are very successful and they don't seem to get it.  One comment:  "If you're losing $30,000 in  deductions then you must be a millionaire...do you live in a mansion?!".   They don't get that the biggest chunk of that...the personal exemption...isn't money you earned and/or paid...that I merely had been exempted from paying tax on $20,050 of my income.  They think I paid $20,000 to something and they just eliminated the write-off.  And Dale's brother...masters from Kellogg...a 40 year career in banking...and I have to explain to him how the fact that they didn't end up eliminating the medical deduction is meaningless because I don't have enough in write-offs to itemize due to the SALT cap...my deductions are now less than $24,000, so I'll be taking the standard.  Then my good friend...the millionaire who lives on Lake Minnetonka...when I tell her that I'm losing the personal exemption for a family of 5, says "I thought they were doubling that to $24,000"?

My millionaire buddy in Inverness is ecstatic.  His greatest concern in the last couple of years has been that he has over 11 million dollars in net worth and <gasp!> his kids might have to pay some filthy tax on some of their inheritance.  Oh no!  Now he can sleep at night, I guess.  All of the world's problems have been solved.  

Yeah, I'm not sure very many people grasp the effects of the new tax law yet.  I'm pretty good at grasping that stuff because of my career and even I'm a bit fuzzy on it.  Now that there's a SALT cap, and not many other things are deductible, I'm not sure how many people are really going to qualify for itemizing.  Can't imagine that I'll be itemizing.  When I do the calculator, it shows me getting a bigger refund taking the standard deduction.  Just seems to me that every time we change the tax laws, we further encourage the hoarding of profit and cash, instead of encouraging the widening of the middle class.  

I know that there are a few conservatives that are jumping around because Wells announced something like 200 million bucks being dished out in $1,000 bonuses.  That's great and all, but this tax change will mean something like $10 billion more to Wells, or maybe more.  If anyone thinks that handing 10 billion to some giant corporation and then having them share 2% of it with employees is going to widen the middle class, then they are hopelessly ignorant about economics.  Taking $1.5 trillion out of fed revenues to give primarily to the rich is not a recipe for a thriving economy and a larger middle class.

Yeah, the "simplification" is kinda the bullshit of the bill.  I think a fair group of the folks who have always taken the standard deduction assumed that anyone who itemized was getting away with something...that us regular folks were getting some absurd write-offs and that we were somehow gaming the system...when we pretty much were just deducting mortgage interest, SALT, maybe medical expenses, some business expenses, and a few charitable donations.  So now this super duper simplified system caps the few deductions I have so that I'll end up taking the standard deduction, and our family of 5 will get the same deduction as a young married couple living in their parents' basement.  And that's when the who's on first conversation comes in "well, no...it's not the same as the young couple living in mom's basement...cuz you can still write off your mortgage, right?"  And you explain that you're ALLOWED to...that yes, the tax code still permits that...but that your deductions are less than $24,000, so you'll end up taking the same deduction as the basement dwellers.