HomeSo back-to-back division champs and playoffs three years in a row. That's something new in Chicago baseball. Let the playoffs begin!
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Playoffs - Year 3
blondy28- Bova!
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frank bonifacic- Not a Fanboy
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Hmm!blondy28 wrote:So back-to-back division champs and playoffs three years in a row. That's something new in Chicago baseball. Let the playoffs begin!
Quintana 7-3 with Cubs 3.5 ERA Behind only Hendricks (believe one complete shelling which kicked up ERA)
K/9IP Q 10.51 leading starter, 2nd is Lester at 8.86
win % Q #1 at .700, Lester 2nd at .600
Quality starts; Lester 18, Arieta 16, Hendricks 14, Lackey 12, Q 9 (played in 13 games, Lester 31, Arieta & Lackey 30,
Hendricks 23
Strikeouts; Lester 173, Arieta 163, Lackey 148, Hendricks 114, Quintana 93 (18 less games 80 less strikeouts than Lester!)
WHIP Q # 3 on team, #1 starter at 1.09, next starter is at 7 (Hendricks t 1.20)
4 of last 5 starts quality starts, 1 inning from quality start in 5th game
As the old song goes "How do you like me now?!"
Or is he still "hot garbage"
SoxIlliniRob- Bova!
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Based on that small data pool, one might conclude Q is their best starter, or tied with Arietta as their best starter.
blondy28- Bova!
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frank bonifacic wrote:Hmm!blondy28 wrote:So back-to-back division champs and playoffs three years in a row. That's something new in Chicago baseball. Let the playoffs begin!
Quintana 7-3 with Cubs 3.5 ERA Behind only Hendricks (believe one complete shelling which kicked up ERA)
K/9IP Q 10.51 leading starter, 2nd is Lester at 8.86
win % Q #1 at .700, Lester 2nd at .600
Quality starts; Lester 18, Arieta 16, Hendricks 14, Lackey 12, Q 9 (played in 13 games, Lester 31, Arieta & Lackey 30,
Hendricks 23
Strikeouts; Lester 173, Arieta 163, Lackey 148, Hendricks 114, Quintana 93 (18 less games 80 less strikeouts than Lester!)
WHIP Q # 3 on team, #1 starter at 1.09, next starter is at 7 (Hendricks t 1.20)
4 of last 5 starts quality starts, 1 inning from quality start in 5th game
As the old song goes "How do you like me now?!"
Or is he still "hot garbage"
I believe I answered this when Rob asked. I don't think comparing hot garbage to other hot garbage is the best way to convince me of anything. I also said that I have one foot on the bandwagon.
blondy28- Bova!
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SoxIlliniRob wrote:Based on that small data pool, one might conclude Q is their best starter, or tied with Arietta as their best starter.
I don't have confidence in any of our five starters. I don't much care what the season stats are, because the starting pitchers who have been on the Cubs all year have all been injured. Arrieta, Hendricks, and Lackey have all looked strong since coming off the DL. I NEVER thought I'd have a good thing to say about Lackey, but he's been pitching like a 30-year-old since coming off the DL. Ranking pitchers in order of my personal confidence: 1. Hendricks, 2. Lackey, 3. Arrieta, 4. Quintana, 5. Lester.
frank bonifacic- Not a Fanboy
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Lackey will be in bullpen in playoffs. Arieta is working on his delivery? And is throwing 93 without movement, Lester has been struggling to go more than 5.blondy28 wrote:SoxIlliniRob wrote:Based on that small data pool, one might conclude Q is their best starter, or tied with Arietta as their best starter.
I don't have confidence in any of our five starters. I don't much care what the season stats are, because the starting pitchers who have been on the Cubs all year have all been injured. Arrieta, Hendricks, and Lackey have all looked strong since coming off the DL. I NEVER thought I'd have a good thing to say about Lackey, but he's been pitching like a 30-year-old since coming off the DL. Ranking pitchers in order of my personal confidence: 1. Hendricks, 2. Lackey, 3. Arrieta, 4. Quintana, 5. Lester.
Other than that, your choices look OK
blondy28- Bova!
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frank bonifacic wrote:Lackey will be in bullpen in playoffs. Arieta is working on his delivery? And is throwing 93 without movement, Lester has been struggling to go more than 5.blondy28 wrote:SoxIlliniRob wrote:Based on that small data pool, one might conclude Q is their best starter, or tied with Arietta as their best starter.
I don't have confidence in any of our five starters. I don't much care what the season stats are, because the starting pitchers who have been on the Cubs all year have all been injured. Arrieta, Hendricks, and Lackey have all looked strong since coming off the DL. I NEVER thought I'd have a good thing to say about Lackey, but he's been pitching like a 30-year-old since coming off the DL. Ranking pitchers in order of my personal confidence: 1. Hendricks, 2. Lackey, 3. Arrieta, 4. Quintana, 5. Lester.
Other than that, your choices look OK
As I said, they're all pretty much hot garbage....1 through 5.
blondy28- Bova!
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...and today Quintana folded like a cheap tent.
SoxIlliniRob- Bova!
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blondy28 wrote:...and today Quintana folded like a cheap tent.
he's going to have a rough outing every once in a while, just like anyone. Be glad it was during a game that didn't matter.
blondy28- Bova!
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SoxIlliniRob wrote:blondy28 wrote:...and today Quintana folded like a cheap tent.
he's going to have a rough outing every once in a while, just like anyone. Be glad it was during a game that didn't matter.
Sure...every once in a while. But during his stint with the Cubs, it's often enough to keep him firmly at the #4 spot in my confidence list. I have NEVER had confidence in Lester (not even last year, when my eyes told me I should have), and this year he's been a virtual suck fest. I read a long article yesterday hashing out various options, and it seemed that the writer (and don't ask me who it was...I have no earthly clue where I even read it) thought it made sense to go R-L-R-L and suggested best order was Hendricks, Quintana, Arrieta, and Lester, or secondarily, swapping Hendricks and Arrieta.
SoxIlliniRob- Bova!
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blondy28 wrote:
Sure...every once in a while. But during his stint with the Cubs, it's often enough to keep him firmly at the #4 spot in my confidence list. I have NEVER had confidence in Lester (not even last year, when my eyes told me I should have), and this year he's been a virtual suck fest. I read a long article yesterday hashing out various options, and it seemed that the writer (and don't ask me who it was...I have no earthly clue where I even read it) thought it made sense to go R-L-R-L and suggested best order was Hendricks, Quintana, Arrieta, and Lester, or secondarily, swapping Hendricks and Arrieta.
The conventional wisdom that I've heard (and felt) this season is that the Cubs don't particularly have the pitching to get them through the postseason. That's not to say that they can't still win it all, but one gets the feeling that if they win it all or make it to the WS, it'll be because the hitting did it for them, rather than the pitching.
I've never felt Q is an ace or a "great", so to speak. Always just struck me as a very good, very reliable pitcher, who is occasionally pretty hittable when he's a little bit off. Much like a Buehrle, except that Buehrle had some better run production behind him than Quintana has had. Whether he's a #1 or a #4 in the Cub rotation, he's pretty much put up the most notable numbers and ratios of all of the Cub starters, but not by otherworldly amounts. When he gets his games, it won't surprise me if he pitches a 12K shutout, or gives up seven runs in five innings. He's capable of either.
blondy28- Bova!
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SoxIlliniRob wrote:blondy28 wrote:
Sure...every once in a while. But during his stint with the Cubs, it's often enough to keep him firmly at the #4 spot in my confidence list. I have NEVER had confidence in Lester (not even last year, when my eyes told me I should have), and this year he's been a virtual suck fest. I read a long article yesterday hashing out various options, and it seemed that the writer (and don't ask me who it was...I have no earthly clue where I even read it) thought it made sense to go R-L-R-L and suggested best order was Hendricks, Quintana, Arrieta, and Lester, or secondarily, swapping Hendricks and Arrieta.
The conventional wisdom that I've heard (and felt) this season is that the Cubs don't particularly have the pitching to get them through the postseason. That's not to say that they can't still win it all, but one gets the feeling that if they win it all or make it to the WS, it'll be because the hitting did it for them, rather than the pitching.
I've never felt Q is an ace or a "great", so to speak. Always just struck me as a very good, very reliable pitcher, who is occasionally pretty hittable when he's a little bit off. Much like a Buehrle, except that Buehrle had some better run production behind him than Quintana has had. Whether he's a #1 or a #4 in the Cub rotation, he's pretty much put up the most notable numbers and ratios of all of the Cub starters, but not by otherworldly amounts. When he gets his games, it won't surprise me if he pitches a 12K shutout, or gives up seven runs in five innings. He's capable of either.
Agreed for sure up to the All Star Break. **IF** (big IF) the post-injury/All Star break staff is what we see in the playoffs, who knows. Last year the Indians were predicted to run the Cubs out of the stadium...stealing on every pitch...and the Indians' bullpen was supposed to make our hitters' knees buckle. None of that transpired.
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Agreed for sure up to the All Star Break. **IF** (big IF) the post-injury/All Star break staff is what we see in the playoffs, who knows. Last year the Indians were predicted to run the Cubs out of the stadium...stealing on every pitch...and the Indians' bullpen was supposed to make our hitters' knees buckle. None of that transpired.
You write like the Cubs blew thru the Indians without any problem at all...matter of fact is, they deserved to win no more than the Indians deserved to lose - and I'm not sure what you were reading before the series started, but the darling cubs weren't underdogs going into that series - in fact, they were 7-4 odds to win it while the Indians were 14-1.
You write like the Cubs blew thru the Indians without any problem at all...matter of fact is, they deserved to win no more than the Indians deserved to lose - and I'm not sure what you were reading before the series started, but the darling cubs weren't underdogs going into that series - in fact, they were 7-4 odds to win it while the Indians were 14-1.
frank bonifacic- Not a Fanboy
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and what happens without the rain??!!sharpy wrote:Agreed for sure up to the All Star Break. **IF** (big IF) the post-injury/All Star break staff is what we see in the playoffs, who knows. Last year the Indians were predicted to run the Cubs out of the stadium...stealing on every pitch...and the Indians' bullpen was supposed to make our hitters' knees buckle. None of that transpired.
You write like the Cubs blew thru the Indians without any problem at all...matter of fact is, they deserved to win no more than the Indians deserved to lose - and I'm not sure what you were reading before the series started, but the darling cubs weren't underdogs going into that series - in fact, they were 7-4 odds to win it while the Indians were 14-1.
frank bonifacic- Not a Fanboy
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Believe I heard something similar- and here was reasoning.blondy28 wrote:SoxIlliniRob wrote:blondy28 wrote:...and today Quintana folded like a cheap tent.
he's going to have a rough outing every once in a while, just like anyone. Be glad it was during a game that didn't matter.
Sure...every once in a while. But during his stint with the Cubs, it's often enough to keep him firmly at the #4 spot in my confidence list. I have NEVER had confidence in Lester (not even last year, when my eyes told me I should have), and this year he's been a virtual suck fest. I read a long article yesterday hashing out various options, and it seemed that the writer (and don't ask me who it was...I have no earthly clue where I even read it) thought it made sense to go R-L-R-L and suggested best order was Hendricks, Quintana, Arrieta, and Lester, or secondarily, swapping Hendricks and Arrieta.
Arieta has never had a problem on the road.
Quintana would be under less pressure on the road (hasn't been in this situation before)
Lester has been great at Wrigley.
Makes sense
blondy28- Bova!
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sharpy wrote:Agreed for sure up to the All Star Break. **IF** (big IF) the post-injury/All Star break staff is what we see in the playoffs, who knows. Last year the Indians were predicted to run the Cubs out of the stadium...stealing on every pitch...and the Indians' bullpen was supposed to make our hitters' knees buckle. None of that transpired.
You write like the Cubs blew thru the Indians without any problem at all...matter of fact is, they deserved to win no more than the Indians deserved to lose - and I'm not sure what you were reading before the series started, but the darling cubs weren't underdogs going into that series - in fact, they were 7-4 odds to win it while the Indians were 14-1.
Um...yeah...no. I made no mention, nor did I remotely imply...anything about winning, losing, odds, underdogs, or anything of the sort. I was quite clearly talking about the game plans. The strengths. The weaknesses. Win, lose, sweep, or go 7 games...regardless of outcome...the talk was that Indians were going to successfully run on the Cubs. The knock on the Dodgers was that their game plan seemed to be to pretend they were going to run, but instead, they danced around on the bases to...I don't know...try to get into the Cubs' heads. But nope, not the Indians...they were going to successfully run on the Cubs. By contrast, you didn't hear anything going into that series about the Cubs' running game being significant. The Indians had 4 stolen bases the entire series, and 4 caught stealing/pickoffs. Net zero. The Cubs had 7 stolen bases and 1 caught stealing.
My post to Rob...and the very clear point...is that I would agree that the Cubs have no shot at a WS through dominant pitching...but that I wouldn't be surprised if the "on paper"...the pre-playoffs predictions (for the Cubs or ANY team in the playoffs)...turned out exactly opposite.
blondy28- Bova!
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frank bonifacic wrote:Believe I heard something similar- and here was reasoning.blondy28 wrote:SoxIlliniRob wrote:blondy28 wrote:...and today Quintana folded like a cheap tent.
he's going to have a rough outing every once in a while, just like anyone. Be glad it was during a game that didn't matter.
Sure...every once in a while. But during his stint with the Cubs, it's often enough to keep him firmly at the #4 spot in my confidence list. I have NEVER had confidence in Lester (not even last year, when my eyes told me I should have), and this year he's been a virtual suck fest. I read a long article yesterday hashing out various options, and it seemed that the writer (and don't ask me who it was...I have no earthly clue where I even read it) thought it made sense to go R-L-R-L and suggested best order was Hendricks, Quintana, Arrieta, and Lester, or secondarily, swapping Hendricks and Arrieta.
Arieta has never had a problem on the road.
Quintana would be under less pressure on the road (hasn't been in this situation before)
Lester has been great at Wrigley.
Makes sense
Appears that Quintana is last in the rotation based on what I heard. Hendricks, Lester, Arrieta, Quintana. IF the Cubs get swept he doesn't even get to pitch. I'm not a great fan of Quintana, but I'm least confident of Lester, so this surprises me. Arrieta is a question mark due to his lingering injury, but assuming he's OK, I have no problem with where he and Kyle are in the line-up, but not sure how I feel about Lester going #2 (unless they're putting a lot of weight on his last outing).
frank bonifacic- Not a Fanboy
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Seems like Q is considered a little better than you believe by the Cubs!!blondy28 wrote:frank bonifacic wrote:Believe I heard something similar- and here was reasoning.blondy28 wrote:SoxIlliniRob wrote:blondy28 wrote:...and today Quintana folded like a cheap tent.
he's going to have a rough outing every once in a while, just like anyone. Be glad it was during a game that didn't matter.
Sure...every once in a while. But during his stint with the Cubs, it's often enough to keep him firmly at the #4 spot in my confidence list. I have NEVER had confidence in Lester (not even last year, when my eyes told me I should have), and this year he's been a virtual suck fest. I read a long article yesterday hashing out various options, and it seemed that the writer (and don't ask me who it was...I have no earthly clue where I even read it) thought it made sense to go R-L-R-L and suggested best order was Hendricks, Quintana, Arrieta, and Lester, or secondarily, swapping Hendricks and Arrieta.
Arieta has never had a problem on the road.
Quintana would be under less pressure on the road (hasn't been in this situation before)
Lester has been great at Wrigley.
Makes sense
Appears that Quintana is last in the rotation based on what I heard. Hendricks, Lester, Arrieta, Quintana. IF the Cubs get swept he doesn't even get to pitch. I'm not a great fan of Quintana, but I'm least confident of Lester, so this surprises me. Arrieta is a question mark due to his lingering injury, but assuming he's OK, I have no problem with where he and Kyle are in the line-up, but not sure how I feel about Lester going #2 (unless they're putting a lot of weight on his last outing).
blondy28- Bova!
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frank bonifacic wrote:Seems like Q is considered a little better than you believe by the Cubs!!blondy28 wrote:frank bonifacic wrote:Believe I heard something similar- and here was reasoning.blondy28 wrote:SoxIlliniRob wrote:blondy28 wrote:...and today Quintana folded like a cheap tent.
he's going to have a rough outing every once in a while, just like anyone. Be glad it was during a game that didn't matter.
Sure...every once in a while. But during his stint with the Cubs, it's often enough to keep him firmly at the #4 spot in my confidence list. I have NEVER had confidence in Lester (not even last year, when my eyes told me I should have), and this year he's been a virtual suck fest. I read a long article yesterday hashing out various options, and it seemed that the writer (and don't ask me who it was...I have no earthly clue where I even read it) thought it made sense to go R-L-R-L and suggested best order was Hendricks, Quintana, Arrieta, and Lester, or secondarily, swapping Hendricks and Arrieta.
Arieta has never had a problem on the road.
Quintana would be under less pressure on the road (hasn't been in this situation before)
Lester has been great at Wrigley.
Makes sense
Appears that Quintana is last in the rotation based on what I heard. Hendricks, Lester, Arrieta, Quintana. IF the Cubs get swept he doesn't even get to pitch. I'm not a great fan of Quintana, but I'm least confident of Lester, so this surprises me. Arrieta is a question mark due to his lingering injury, but assuming he's OK, I have no problem with where he and Kyle are in the line-up, but not sure how I feel about Lester going #2 (unless they're putting a lot of weight on his last outing).
Given that the Cubs made the trade, I think it's a pretty safe bet that they have a higher opinion than I do. They clearly have a higher opinion of Lester than I do. But it seems that if the rumored line-ups were correct, then Quintana was moved to #3 because of Arrieta's nagging injury, not necessarily because of the Cubs' confidence. And when taking Arrieta's injury into account, I would actually have Quintana AHEAD of where the Cubs have him...I'd have him going #2...which does NOT suggest that I have a higher opinion of him than the Cubs do, but rather, just means that I have a lower opinion of Lester than the Cubs do. If Arrieta's injury necessitates him going at #4, my order would be Hendricks, Quintana, Lester, Arrieta.
frank bonifacic- Not a Fanboy
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So would I-especially considering what I posted earlier (Q might have less pressure in 1st playoff game on road-and Lester has been really good at home.blondy28 wrote:frank bonifacic wrote:Seems like Q is considered a little better than you believe by the Cubs!!blondy28 wrote:frank bonifacic wrote:Believe I heard something similar- and here was reasoning.blondy28 wrote:SoxIlliniRob wrote:blondy28 wrote:...and today Quintana folded like a cheap tent.
he's going to have a rough outing every once in a while, just like anyone. Be glad it was during a game that didn't matter.
Sure...every once in a while. But during his stint with the Cubs, it's often enough to keep him firmly at the #4 spot in my confidence list. I have NEVER had confidence in Lester (not even last year, when my eyes told me I should have), and this year he's been a virtual suck fest. I read a long article yesterday hashing out various options, and it seemed that the writer (and don't ask me who it was...I have no earthly clue where I even read it) thought it made sense to go R-L-R-L and suggested best order was Hendricks, Quintana, Arrieta, and Lester, or secondarily, swapping Hendricks and Arrieta.
Arieta has never had a problem on the road.
Quintana would be under less pressure on the road (hasn't been in this situation before)
Lester has been great at Wrigley.
Makes sense
Appears that Quintana is last in the rotation based on what I heard. Hendricks, Lester, Arrieta, Quintana. IF the Cubs get swept he doesn't even get to pitch. I'm not a great fan of Quintana, but I'm least confident of Lester, so this surprises me. Arrieta is a question mark due to his lingering injury, but assuming he's OK, I have no problem with where he and Kyle are in the line-up, but not sure how I feel about Lester going #2 (unless they're putting a lot of weight on his last outing).
Given that the Cubs made the trade, I think it's a pretty safe bet that they have a higher opinion than I do. They clearly have a higher opinion of Lester than I do. But it seems that if the rumored line-ups were correct, then Quintana was moved to #3 because of Arrieta's nagging injury, not necessarily because of the Cubs' confidence. And when taking Arrieta's injury into account, I would actually have Quintana AHEAD of where the Cubs have him...I'd have him going #2...which does NOT suggest that I have a higher opinion of him than the Cubs do, but rather, just means that I have a lower opinion of Lester than the Cubs do. If Arrieta's injury necessitates him going at #4, my order would be Hendricks, Quintana, Lester, Arrieta.
However, it seems they went the way they did because if necessary, Lester would pitch Game 5 on his normal rest.
Don't know if they are quite ready to put Q in for deciding Game 5-but if he's pitching better, why not?
blondy28- Bova!
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frank bonifacic wrote:So would I-especially considering what I posted earlier (Q might have less pressure in 1st playoff game on road-and Lester has been really good at home.blondy28 wrote:frank bonifacic wrote:Seems like Q is considered a little better than you believe by the Cubs!!blondy28 wrote:frank bonifacic wrote:Believe I heard something similar- and here was reasoning.blondy28 wrote:SoxIlliniRob wrote:blondy28 wrote:...and today Quintana folded like a cheap tent.
he's going to have a rough outing every once in a while, just like anyone. Be glad it was during a game that didn't matter.
Sure...every once in a while. But during his stint with the Cubs, it's often enough to keep him firmly at the #4 spot in my confidence list. I have NEVER had confidence in Lester (not even last year, when my eyes told me I should have), and this year he's been a virtual suck fest. I read a long article yesterday hashing out various options, and it seemed that the writer (and don't ask me who it was...I have no earthly clue where I even read it) thought it made sense to go R-L-R-L and suggested best order was Hendricks, Quintana, Arrieta, and Lester, or secondarily, swapping Hendricks and Arrieta.
Arieta has never had a problem on the road.
Quintana would be under less pressure on the road (hasn't been in this situation before)
Lester has been great at Wrigley.
Makes sense
Appears that Quintana is last in the rotation based on what I heard. Hendricks, Lester, Arrieta, Quintana. IF the Cubs get swept he doesn't even get to pitch. I'm not a great fan of Quintana, but I'm least confident of Lester, so this surprises me. Arrieta is a question mark due to his lingering injury, but assuming he's OK, I have no problem with where he and Kyle are in the line-up, but not sure how I feel about Lester going #2 (unless they're putting a lot of weight on his last outing).
Given that the Cubs made the trade, I think it's a pretty safe bet that they have a higher opinion than I do. They clearly have a higher opinion of Lester than I do. But it seems that if the rumored line-ups were correct, then Quintana was moved to #3 because of Arrieta's nagging injury, not necessarily because of the Cubs' confidence. And when taking Arrieta's injury into account, I would actually have Quintana AHEAD of where the Cubs have him...I'd have him going #2...which does NOT suggest that I have a higher opinion of him than the Cubs do, but rather, just means that I have a lower opinion of Lester than the Cubs do. If Arrieta's injury necessitates him going at #4, my order would be Hendricks, Quintana, Lester, Arrieta.
However, it seems they went the way they did because if necessary, Lester would pitch Game 5 on his normal rest.
Don't know if they are quite ready to put Q in for deciding Game 5-but if he's pitching better, why not?
I'd rather see Lackey in game 5 than Lester.
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