4 posters

Well that wasn't

alohafri: Bova!; Posts : 1768
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Age : 57
Location : Between Sarah Michelle Gellar's Legs

Post n°1

Well that wasn't

by alohafri Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:55 pm

They proved they were not ready for prime time. Only one starting pitcher made it into the 5th inning...sort of the anti-2005 rotation.

I'm sorry but Grandal needs to go. He is horrible behind the plate. He can't catch nor throw anyone out. Hell, I bet I could steal off of him. Hernandez was less than stellar. I wasn't impressed. If there is another second baseman available as a free agent, the Sox should go after him. Let Rodon walk. He's pretty good, but undependable. The Sox need to make up their minds on Sheets and Vaughn. They are the same player hitting on opposite sides of the plate. Maybe package one for a catcher. It's time for management to realize that Leury Garcia is a nice player to have, but he's not a starter. Never was, never will be. He needs to be an infield sub and have his outfield glove taken away from him. Kimbrel needs to go. Keuchel needs to go. Apparently Engel is an injury waiting to happen. He can't be counted on. Maybe it's just me, but Moncada looks disinterested in playing baseball. Maybe he needs a new place to play. Eloy has improved in the field, but dammit, hit the cutoff man!

This team has more holes than fanboys are willing to admit. If they didn't have such a great first half, the division would have been up for grabs as the record against the Central wasn't that stellar. Watch out for Kansas City next year.

SoxIlliniRob

SoxIlliniRob: Bova!; Posts : 1942
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Location : Saint Charles, IL

Post n°2

Re: Well that wasn't

by SoxIlliniRob Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:04 pm

I'd say to watch out for Detroit next year. Lotta young stars and an up and coming pitching staff.

Leury is a great 10th man. I'd not want him as a starter unless my other 8 are elite players. In that case, I'd live with him and like it. Still, great guy to have on your team. You just know Kark is creaming his jeans over Leury the Supersub.

Just got done making that point on Pride and Passion that Grandal would be better served as the full time DH and the backup catcher. The Astros catcher is a FA this winter (Maldanado). I could live with him as the full time C.

Eloy needs to come out hitting next year. He never really kicked it into gear this season when he returned.

Keuchel will still be here. Make him your #5 and keep Lopez around as his early/mid-inning replacement.

Not sold on Kopech as a starter. He's not efficient and doesn't pitch to contact. Will be at 80 pitches in the 4th inning on several nights. I see Crochet as a guy who could be a decent starter in the middle of a rotation.

I'd be ok with keeping Rodon. I wonder if he could be a reliever. If he pitched more often for fewer innings, could he stay healthier? Let's face it...when he was on his game, he was unhittable for his first several innings each outing. Maybe he could be a closer somewhere. Look at his stuff in the first inning yesterday. Rodon is probably a guy who can get you some innings in the rotation but surely isn't a guy you can rely on for the postseason.

I think I sort of view Sheets/Vaugh as the RF platoon for the moment. Each of them can also sub in at DH or 1B....or LF.

Kind of a shame that Moncada hasn't lived up to potential except in 2019. I wonder if his bout with Covid really messed him up or if he's just bad. That said, he had a WAR of 4.0 this year. That's hard to replace.

Engel keeps on looking like he's ready to break through, and then he breaks something on his body. Kind of a shame with this guy. When he's playing healthy, he looks ready to be a real MLB player. He gets some timely hits, and has some power and a nice glove.

I view Cease the way I viewed Garland in the early 2000's. Always looked ready to break through and then took until 2005 to really make a splash. Maybe next year is Cease's year?

I'm also worried that Lynn might be injury prone in these later career years for him. He kinda went over the cliff in early September.

You're right, Kevin. Lotta holes. Should still be the favorite to win the division next year, though.

sharpy

sharpy: Fanboy; Posts : 915
Join date : 2017-05-10

Post n°3

Re: Well that wasn't

by sharpy Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:17 am

Grandal was another Facebook argument I got into - made the point that with men on 2nd and 3rd I'd rather have a .300/.320 hitter up than a .136/.380 hitter who was waiting for his clutch walk - of course was ridiculed over that lack of understanding how great Grandal really is. I've always lived by the philosophy that you win nothing without a really good catcher - and he certainly is not that.

Second base can be solved with the signing of Marcus Simien - which of course JR will never do.
Lynn had a nice year but I was against getting him b/c I don't think fat pitchers last - this is professional sports and sorry, but with all due respects to Kruk, you have to be in some sort of athletic shape to play, play well and last - Lynn looks like the guy who pitched for the last 16" softball team I was on. I think you have to have Giolito, Cease, Crochet and Kopech as 4 of your starters - teach/coach Kopech how to start b/c frankly, I think he kinda sucks as a reliever and seems a huge waste of talent to pitch the 6th and 7th innings.
I like Moncada. I think he's the most athletic person on the team, including Anderson. Everyone expected him to his .320 with about 30 homers, which he may one day get, but maybe not, but I doubt you're finding anyone better than him available.
I know everyone seems to like Engel - not sure why tho ... he's replaceable with about 1000 players around the league and in the minors ...so keep him if cheap, but don't think he should start either.
I actually am fascinated by Sheets. I keep thinking of thome when I see him hit. I like his approach, his power and he actually seems to have good plate discipline .. give him time. I like Vaughn too, but not sure there is a position for him on this team, unless they wait until Abreu quits.

if I could do one thing, it would be sign Simien ..

SoxIlliniRob

SoxIlliniRob: Bova!; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2017-05-05
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Post n°4

Re: Well that wasn't

by SoxIlliniRob Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:58 am

sharpy wrote:Grandal was another Facebook argument I got into - made the point that with men on 2nd and 3rd I'd rather have a .300/.320 hitter up than a .136/.380 hitter who was waiting for his clutch walk - of course was ridiculed over that lack of understanding how great Grandal really is. I've always lived by the philosophy that you win nothing without a really good catcher - and he certainly is not that.

Second base can be solved with the signing of Marcus Simien - which of course JR will never do.
Lynn had a nice year but I was against getting him b/c I don't think fat pitchers last - this is professional sports and sorry, but with all due respects to Kruk, you have to be in some sort of athletic shape to play, play well and last - Lynn looks like the guy who pitched for the last 16" softball team I was on. I think you have to have Giolito, Cease, Crochet and Kopech as 4 of your starters - teach/coach Kopech how to start b/c frankly, I think he kinda sucks as a reliever and seems a huge waste of talent to pitch the 6th and 7th innings.
I like Moncada. I think he's the most athletic person on the team, including Anderson. Everyone expected him to his .320 with about 30 homers, which he may one day get, but maybe not, but I doubt you're finding anyone better than him available.
I know everyone seems to like Engel - not sure why tho ... he's replaceable with about 1000 players around the league and in the minors ...so keep him if cheap, but don't think he should start either.
I actually am fascinated by Sheets. I keep thinking of thome when I see him hit. I like his approach, his power and he actually seems to have good plate discipline .. give him time. I like Vaughn too, but not sure there is a position for him on this team, unless they wait until Abreu quits.

if I could do one thing, it would be sign Simien ..

There's not much I can argue there, Tim. Semien would also be my choice of off-season moves. I actually believe that if Engel could stay healthy (is that possible?) he might prove to be a worthwhile player. I doubt we'll ever find out.

Crochet intrigues me most as a potential starter. He's fairly efficient. He throws hard but gets a lot of soft contact. It's not hard to imagine him throwing 7 innings before hitting 100 pitches. Not sure he's good enough to actually LAST for 7 innings, but it might be nice to see him try. It would be cool to see him make a move back to occasionally touching 100 mph again as an occasional out pitch, i.e. when he really needs a big K. there's been talk that he dialed down the speed to be more durable. Not sure I buy that. Competitors of his caliber wouldn't be able to NOT pull out the 100 mph in big spots. I think it's gone.

I just can't bring myself to see Kopech being able to be a reliable starter but, like you, I think you have to try just to see if he can have success doing it. He's been too unpredictable as a reliever. Either blows guys away or gets hit ass kicked. Might need another pitch?

I believe that the team sees Vaughn as another potential Konerko. How much longer will Abreu be around? He really looked to me like he lost a step in his hitting prowess, but gained talent as a fielder. Are you not down with keeping Vaughn as a super sub who can platoon RF with Sheets, and spot play at 1B to let Abreu DH once in a while?

For me, the most encouraging thing about watching Sheets has been his willingness to fight and claw through an at bat and to accept a weak single into LF as a successful result. He had an amazing number of soft grounders against the shift for easy singles to LF. I admire players like that. Just kinda weird that he didn't have more fanfare before being brought up from the minors. You'd think that the organization would have been touting him a bit more for the kind of talent he appears to have.

FMB1432

FMB1432: Not a Fanboy; Posts : 14
Join date : 2021-06-07

Post n°5

Re: Well that wasn't

by FMB1432 Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:55 pm

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

sharpy wrote:Grandal was another Facebook argument I got into - made the point that with men on 2nd and 3rd I'd rather have a .300/.320 hitter up than a .136/.380 hitter who was waiting for his clutch walk - of course was ridiculed over that lack of understanding how great Grandal really is. I've always lived by the philosophy that you win nothing without a really good catcher - and he certainly is not that.

Second base can be solved with the signing of Marcus Simien - which of course JR will never do.
Lynn had a nice year but I was against getting him b/c I don't think fat pitchers last - this is professional sports and sorry, but with all due respects to Kruk, you have to be in some sort of athletic shape to play, play well and last - Lynn looks like the guy who pitched for the last 16" softball team I was on. I think you have to have Giolito, Cease, Crochet and Kopech as 4 of your starters - teach/coach Kopech how to start b/c frankly, I think he kinda sucks as a reliever and seems a huge waste of talent to pitch the 6th and 7th innings.
I like Moncada. I think he's the most athletic person on the team, including Anderson. Everyone expected him to his .320 with about 30 homers, which he may one day get, but maybe not, but I doubt you're finding anyone better than him available.
I know everyone seems to like Engel - not sure why tho ... he's replaceable with about 1000 players around the league and in the minors ...so keep him if cheap, but don't think he should start either.
I actually am fascinated by Sheets. I keep thinking of thome when I see him hit. I like his approach, his power and he actually seems to have good plate discipline .. give him time. I like Vaughn too, but not sure there is a position for him on this team, unless they wait until Abreu quits.

if I could do one thing, it would be sign Simien ..

There's not much I can argue there, Tim. Semien would also be my choice of off-season moves. I actually believe that if Engel could stay healthy (is that possible?) he might prove to be a worthwhile player. I doubt we'll ever find out.

Crochet intrigues me most as a potential starter. He's fairly efficient. He throws hard but gets a lot of soft contact. It's not hard to imagine him throwing 7 innings before hitting 100 pitches. Not sure he's good enough to actually LAST for 7 innings, but it might be nice to see him try. It would be cool to see him make a move back to occasionally touching 100 mph again as an occasional out pitch, i.e. when he really needs a big K. there's been talk that he dialed down the speed to be more durable. Not sure I buy that. Competitors of his caliber wouldn't be able to NOT pull out the 100 mph in big spots. I think it's gone.

I just can't bring myself to see Kopech being able to be a reliable starter but, like you, I think you have to try just to see if he can have success doing it. He's been too unpredictable as a reliever. Either blows guys away or gets hit ass kicked. Might need another pitch?

I believe that the team sees Vaughn as another potential Konerko. How much longer will Abreu be around? He really looked to me like he lost a step in his hitting prowess, but gained talent as a fielder. Are you not down with keeping Vaughn as a super sub who can platoon RF with Sheets, and spot play at 1B to let Abreu DH once in a while?

For me, the most encouraging thing about watching Sheets has been his willingness to fight and claw through an at bat and to accept a weak single into LF as a successful result. He had an amazing number of soft grounders against the shift for easy singles to LF. I admire players like that. Just kinda weird that he didn't have more fanfare before being brought up from the minors. You'd think that the organization would have been touting him a bit more for the kind of talent he appears to have.

Interesting what you said about Kopech. Stone was on and said he's young and it showed in playoffs. He said if he is to be a starter next (and he thinks he will) he needs another pitch. Says he throws slider 86-89 and fast ball 96-99. Those are in same general area. Said there are very few pitchers who can get by with two pitches, Those pitches have to be exceptional. Says Kopech needs a pitch that changes location.
If Sox are going to start him, they need to teach him another pitch.
He thinks he has good stuff.

alohafri

alohafri: Bova!; Posts : 1768
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Post n°6

Re: Well that wasn't

by alohafri Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:49 am

FMB1432 wrote:

Interesting what you said about Kopech. Stone was on and said he's young and it showed in playoffs. He said if he is to be a starter next (and he thinks he will) he needs another pitch. Says he throws slider 86-89 and fast ball 96-99. Those are in same general area. Said there are very few pitchers who can get by with two pitches, Those pitches have to be exceptional. Says Kopech needs a pitch that changes location.
If Sox are going to start him, they need to teach him another pitch.
He thinks he has good stuff.

Hasn't he shown a nasty curveball once in awhile?

SoxIlliniRob

SoxIlliniRob: Bova!; Posts : 1942
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Post n°7

Re: Well that wasn't

by SoxIlliniRob Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:19 am

alohafri wrote:

FMB1432 wrote:

Interesting what you said about Kopech. Stone was on and said he's young and it showed in playoffs. He said if he is to be a starter next (and he thinks he will) he needs another pitch. Says he throws slider 86-89 and fast ball 96-99. Those are in same general area. Said there are very few pitchers who can get by with two pitches, Those pitches have to be exceptional. Says Kopech needs a pitch that changes location.
If Sox are going to start him, they need to teach him another pitch.
He thinks he has good stuff.

Hasn't he shown a nasty curveball once in awhile?

I'm not sure if it's nasty, Kevin. I suppose if you're 100'ish for 3-4 consecutive pitches, any curve in the zone might look nasty. Sometimes I see guys hit or foul off a Kopech offspeed pitch and I'm surprised how good their timing looks to the point where I wonder if they can see it in his delivery.

alohafri

alohafri: Bova!; Posts : 1768
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Post n°8

Re: Well that wasn't

by alohafri Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:50 am

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

alohafri wrote:

FMB1432 wrote:

Interesting what you said about Kopech. Stone was on and said he's young and it showed in playoffs. He said if he is to be a starter next (and he thinks he will) he needs another pitch. Says he throws slider 86-89 and fast ball 96-99. Those are in same general area. Said there are very few pitchers who can get by with two pitches, Those pitches have to be exceptional. Says Kopech needs a pitch that changes location.
If Sox are going to start him, they need to teach him another pitch.
He thinks he has good stuff.

Hasn't he shown a nasty curveball once in awhile?

I'm not sure if it's nasty, Kevin. I suppose if you're 100'ish for 3-4 consecutive pitches, any curve in the zone might look nasty. Sometimes I see guys hit or foul off a Kopech offspeed pitch and I'm surprised how good their timing looks to the point where I wonder if they can see it in his delivery.

Tipping pitches maybe? Or knowing his routines?

SoxIlliniRob

SoxIlliniRob: Bova!; Posts : 1942
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Post n°9

Re: Well that wasn't

by SoxIlliniRob Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:30 pm

alohafri wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

alohafri wrote:

FMB1432 wrote:

Interesting what you said about Kopech. Stone was on and said he's young and it showed in playoffs. He said if he is to be a starter next (and he thinks he will) he needs another pitch. Says he throws slider 86-89 and fast ball 96-99. Those are in same general area. Said there are very few pitchers who can get by with two pitches, Those pitches have to be exceptional. Says Kopech needs a pitch that changes location.
If Sox are going to start him, they need to teach him another pitch.
He thinks he has good stuff.

Hasn't he shown a nasty curveball once in awhile?

I'm not sure if it's nasty, Kevin. I suppose if you're 100'ish for 3-4 consecutive pitches, any curve in the zone might look nasty. Sometimes I see guys hit or foul off a Kopech offspeed pitch and I'm surprised how good their timing looks to the point where I wonder if they can see it in his delivery.

Tipping pitches maybe? Or knowing his routines?

It can certainly be that. Sometimes the difference between a great and an average pitcher at that level is the hitters' ability to read the delivery and predict what pitch is coming. My son had a great curve at a weird arm angle in high school. A college scout told me he'd dominate with that pitch, combined with his weird arm angle and his change up, if he pitched at the lower/mid levels in college. He said that if he went to a higher level in college, they'd easily see differences in his curveball release and hammer him. I agreed with him, since I'm just a dumb dad and I could see the curve coming from his motion.

In Kopech's case, it might be similar to Reynaldo Lopez, who sometimes throws what looks like a very awesome curve or slider and just gets it tattooed into out space and leaves me wondering WTF happened. Lopez perhaps fixed some of that with the changes that made him better this year. Kopech might just need a tiny adjustment to hide his slider a bit better.

sharpy

sharpy: Fanboy; Posts : 915
Join date : 2017-05-10

Post n°10

Re: Well that wasn't

by sharpy Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:06 pm

Are you not down with keeping Vaughn as a super sub who can platoon RF with Sheets, and spot play at 1B to let Abreu DH once in a while?

I think Vaughn can be another Konerko - but again, do you keep him to platoon with Sheets in RF or DH? I could accept that

SoxIlliniRob

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Post n°11

Re: Well that wasn't

by SoxIlliniRob Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:20 am

sharpy wrote: Are you not down with keeping Vaughn as a super sub who can platoon RF with Sheets, and spot play at 1B to let Abreu DH once in a while?

I think Vaughn can be another Konerko - but again, do you keep him to platoon with Sheets in RF or DH? I could accept that

The way I see it, Tim, if you keep him as a platoon RF'er and he begins to produce like Konerko, it won't be long before they find a way to make him a full time player. Maybe they'd trade sheets and leave Vaughn full time in RF, or maybe they'd come up with some other plan....but he'd be a full time player if he could hit like Paulie.

Re: Well that wasn't

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Well that wasn't