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Both Tribes Suck!

alohafri: Bova!; Posts : 1768
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Post n°1

Both Tribes Suck!

by alohafri Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:15 pm

"We obviously didn’t envision having Republicans as part of our party," Rep. Ilhan Omar said of two centrist Democrat senators, Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema.

Same as Greene and Bobart calling people like Cheney, Kinzinger, and Romney RINO.

SoxIlliniRob

SoxIlliniRob: Bova!; Posts : 1942
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Post n°2

Re: Both Tribes Suck!

by SoxIlliniRob Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:37 am

alohafri wrote:"We obviously didn’t envision having Republicans as part of our party," Rep. Ilhan Omar said of two centrist Democrat senators, Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema.

Same as Greene and Bobart calling people like Cheney, Kinzinger, and Romney RINO.

My issue with Manchin and Sinema isn't that they have a contrarian position. It's that they are taking meetings with and political donations from groups and corporations who strongly oppose the pending legislation. We don't have a "for the people" government anymore as far as I'm concerned. It's now a "For the rich people" government. Just yesterday, Sinema had fund raising meetings with 4 different groups who oppose the legislation, and all gave her large donations. Basically, we're selling political positions to bidders. It's fucking insanity that such a system is alive and running in our country. I don't care if the positions they are selling are liberal or conservative. It's the brazen way they are doing it in the wide open that bother me.

In the end, at least Manchin sees it as a negotiation and a push and pull. Sinema seems like she might just be a curmudgeon who gets more out of just being a contrarian than someone who is a serious legislator. They can't even get her to state her position on the pending bill. They can't get her to commit to a $$ amount for the pending bill. She's just playing coy. I suspect that's because she's not done selling her positions on these matters and so she's afraid to commit until all of the money has come off the table. I can't imagine she won't be primaried by her own party, whether that turns out well or badly for Dems.

SoxIlliniRob

SoxIlliniRob: Bova!; Posts : 1942
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Post n°3

Re: Both Tribes Suck!

by SoxIlliniRob Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:41 am

alohafri wrote:"We obviously didn’t envision having Republicans as part of our party," Rep. Ilhan Omar said of two centrist Democrat senators, Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema.

Same as Greene and Bobart calling people like Cheney, Kinzinger, and Romney RINO.

And by the way, Cheney, Kinz and Romney truly ARE RINO at this point, because their positions are no longer aligned with the R party. Let's just be honest and admit this. I consider those three to be principled conservatives, for sure. Mitt is a moderate conservative. Adam is a standard conservative, and I consider Cheney to be very conservative. But being conservative is no longer a part of being considered a Repub. To fall in with the R party right now, you have to support the Trump BS, and support the election overturning efforts, and you have to have the stance that there was presidential election fraud and at least entertain the idea that perhaps Trump won. Basically, Kevin, you are a RINO, too. I don't particularly see the R party returning to the standard R platform from 5, 10, or 20 yrs ago. They are something new now. That said, the three you mention above are DEFINITELY RINO.

blondy28

blondy28: Bova!; Posts : 1804
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Post n°4

Re: Both Tribes Suck!

by blondy28 Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:35 pm

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

alohafri wrote:"We obviously didn’t envision having Republicans as part of our party," Rep. Ilhan Omar said of two centrist Democrat senators, Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema.

Same as Greene and Bobart calling people like Cheney, Kinzinger, and Romney RINO.

My issue with Manchin and Sinema isn't that they have a contrarian position. It's that they are taking meetings with and political donations from groups and corporations who strongly oppose the pending legislation. We don't have a "for the people" government anymore as far as I'm concerned. It's now a "For the rich people" government. Just yesterday, Sinema had fund raising meetings with 4 different groups who oppose the legislation, and all gave her large donations. Basically, we're selling political positions to bidders. It's fucking insanity that such a system is alive and running in our country. I don't care if the positions they are selling are liberal or conservative. It's the brazen way they are doing it in the wide open that bother me.

In the end, at least Manchin sees it as a negotiation and a push and pull. Sinema seems like she might just be a curmudgeon who gets more out of just being a contrarian than someone who is a serious legislator. They can't even get her to state her position on the pending bill. They can't get her to commit to a $$ amount for the pending bill. She's just playing coy. I suspect that's because she's not done selling her positions on these matters and so she's afraid to commit until all of the money has come off the table. I can't imagine she won't be primaried by her own party, whether that turns out well or badly for Dems.

Exactly. That's definitely a "both sides" false equivalency to compare the two. The dems have always had one or two politicians more to the center, even right on certain issues. Joe Lieberman. Mary Landrieu. Your anlysis on Sinema, particularly, is spot on. It's more appropriate to compare Sinema to MTG...neither who are doing anything they were elected to do. Manchin's full of shit...in the pocket of the coal industry, but more likely, padding his daughter's bank account...but he actually pretends to negotiate. I'm baffled by his comment about taking an approach of rewarding rather than entitlement. How does one reward someone with universal pre-K or child care? If you fund child care, doesn't the single mom or low income family have greater opportunity to maximize income? You don't have to get multiple part-time jobs to work around your kids' school hours and vacation schedules. You can actually get a good job...higher paying. Doesn't that save us, the tax payers, on the back end because this family is not as reliant (or at all reliant) on SNAP and other government programs? Doesn't universal pre-K give kids a head start in school, increasing their likelihood of academic success, which might translate into professional success, thus not perpetuating the cycle? And Manchin, with the "what are the pay-fors". Sure...they say that, but giving a few billion to the IRS so they could add personnel to go after tax cheats, recovering trillions is a "nonstarter". Even though WV voted for Trump in huge numbers, both of these bills are very popular among the WV voters, and they would be one of the states that would benefit most by them.

blondy28

blondy28: Bova!; Posts : 1804
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Post n°5

Re: Both Tribes Suck!

by blondy28 Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:49 pm

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

alohafri wrote:"We obviously didn’t envision having Republicans as part of our party," Rep. Ilhan Omar said of two centrist Democrat senators, Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema.

Same as Greene and Bobart calling people like Cheney, Kinzinger, and Romney RINO.

And by the way, Cheney, Kinz and Romney truly ARE RINO at this point, because their positions are no longer aligned with the R party. Let's just be honest and admit this. I consider those three to be principled conservatives, for sure. Mitt is a moderate conservative. Adam is a standard conservative, and I consider Cheney to be very conservative. But being conservative is no longer a part of being considered a Repub. To fall in with the R party right now, you have to support the Trump BS, and support the election overturning efforts, and you have to have the stance that there was presidential election fraud and at least entertain the idea that perhaps Trump won. Basically, Kevin, you are a RINO, too. I don't particularly see the R party returning to the standard R platform from 5, 10, or 20 yrs ago. They are something new now. That said, the three you mention above are DEFINITELY RINO.

I'm baffled about why any of the three stay in the party. If the large majority of your party are pro-Trump Republicans, then you should leave the party. I don't find any of the 3 particularly principled. I think they see Trump for what he is, but that's the only thing on which they're principled. Romney was anti-Trump until he thought he had a shot at Secretary of State, then he was kissing Trump's ass. Cheney & Kinzinger voted for Trump not once but twice. And they all knew more inside info on MANY things...more than the general public did. Why didn't they vote to impeach for the first impeachment? Why do they continue to vote straight party line on stuff that they know has nothing to do with the merits of the bills? Cheney has perpetuated the idea that there's voter fraud...not specific to the 2020 election, or the bullshit Trump and his cult are parroting, but when asked about election security, she is say the same shit the party's been saying for decades and supports legislation meant to reduce democratic voter turnout. Kinzinger, too.

blondy28

blondy28: Bova!; Posts : 1804
Join date : 2017-05-06

Post n°6

Re: Both Tribes Suck!

by blondy28 Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:41 pm

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

alohafri wrote:"We obviously didn’t envision having Republicans as part of our party," Rep. Ilhan Omar said of two centrist Democrat senators, Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema.

Same as Greene and Bobart calling people like Cheney, Kinzinger, and Romney RINO.

My issue with Manchin and Sinema isn't that they have a contrarian position. It's that they are taking meetings with and political donations from groups and corporations who strongly oppose the pending legislation. We don't have a "for the people" government anymore as far as I'm concerned. It's now a "For the rich people" government. Just yesterday, Sinema had fund raising meetings with 4 different groups who oppose the legislation, and all gave her large donations. Basically, we're selling political positions to bidders. It's fucking insanity that such a system is alive and running in our country. I don't care if the positions they are selling are liberal or conservative. It's the brazen way they are doing it in the wide open that bother me.

In the end, at least Manchin sees it as a negotiation and a push and pull. Sinema seems like she might just be a curmudgeon who gets more out of just being a contrarian than someone who is a serious legislator. They can't even get her to state her position on the pending bill. They can't get her to commit to a $$ amount for the pending bill. She's just playing coy. I suspect that's because she's not done selling her positions on these matters and so she's afraid to commit until all of the money has come off the table. I can't imagine she won't be primaried by her own party, whether that turns out well or badly for Dems.

The open of this season of SNL had a skit with Sinema. You can guarantee that she will ramp up the insanity.

alohafri

alohafri: Bova!; Posts : 1768
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Post n°7

Re: Both Tribes Suck!

by alohafri Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:36 am

Both tribes suck because both tribes have adopted a "if you aren't with us, you are against us" mentality. "It's not enough for dogs to win, cats must lose." Fuck that zero sum mentality. Let's go ahead and adopt everything that the douchebag Squad wants us to adopt without any restrictions. We're fucked. Let's go ahead and adopt everything that the douchebags like Cawthorn, the scumbag from Georgia, the criminal from Colorado, and the molester from Ohio want us to adopt without any restrictions. We're fucked. The reason this country has been successful until now is the willingness to compromise. Compromise is dead. These jagoffs in Congress are playing to television cameras. They don't give a fuck about any of us except for ratings and hits. Fuck them all.

SoxIlliniRob

SoxIlliniRob: Bova!; Posts : 1942
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Post n°8

Re: Both Tribes Suck!

by SoxIlliniRob Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:56 pm

alohafri wrote:Both tribes suck because both tribes have adopted a "if you aren't with us, you are against us" mentality. "It's not enough for dogs to win, cats must lose." Fuck that zero sum mentality. Let's go ahead and adopt everything that the douchebag Squad wants us to adopt without any restrictions. We're fucked. Let's go ahead and adopt everything that the douchebags like Cawthorn, the scumbag from Georgia, the criminal from Colorado, and the molester from Ohio want us to adopt without any restrictions. We're fucked. The reason this country has been successful until now is the willingness to compromise. Compromise is dead. These jagoffs in Congress are playing to television cameras. They don't give a fuck about any of us except for ratings and hits. Fuck them all.

I'm pretty sure the Squad is ok with compromising. They'll insist on getting some kind of social welfare bill, but I don't think they're necessary unbending in terms of what can be in it or how bit it has to be. Ultimately, they'll give in on the roads/bridges bill if the other one can't be figured out.

blondy28

blondy28: Bova!; Posts : 1804
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Post n°9

Re: Both Tribes Suck!

by blondy28 Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:30 am

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

alohafri wrote:Both tribes suck because both tribes have adopted a "if you aren't with us, you are against us" mentality. "It's not enough for dogs to win, cats must lose." Fuck that zero sum mentality. Let's go ahead and adopt everything that the douchebag Squad wants us to adopt without any restrictions. We're fucked. Let's go ahead and adopt everything that the douchebags like Cawthorn, the scumbag from Georgia, the criminal from Colorado, and the molester from Ohio want us to adopt without any restrictions. We're fucked. The reason this country has been successful until now is the willingness to compromise. Compromise is dead. These jagoffs in Congress are playing to television cameras. They don't give a fuck about any of us except for ratings and hits. Fuck them all.

I'm pretty sure the Squad is ok with compromising. They'll insist on getting some kind of social welfare bill, but I don't think they're necessary unbending in terms of what can be in it or how bit it has to be. Ultimately, they'll give in on the roads/bridges bill if the other one can't be figured out.

Yes, they will. They have.

blondy28

blondy28: Bova!; Posts : 1804
Join date : 2017-05-06

Post n°10

Re: Both Tribes Suck!

by blondy28 Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:52 am

alohafri wrote:Both tribes suck because both tribes have adopted a "if you aren't with us, you are against us" mentality. "It's not enough for dogs to win, cats must lose." Fuck that zero sum mentality. Let's go ahead and adopt everything that the douchebag Squad wants us to adopt without any restrictions. We're fucked. Let's go ahead and adopt everything that the douchebags like Cawthorn, the scumbag from Georgia, the criminal from Colorado, and the molester from Ohio want us to adopt without any restrictions. We're fucked. The reason this country has been successful until now is the willingness to compromise. Compromise is dead. These jagoffs in Congress are playing to television cameras. They don't give a fuck about any of us except for ratings and hits. Fuck them all.

Nancy Pelosi is against student loan forgiveness, and Joe Biden is against legalizing weed. Let me know how I should feel about them.

alohafri

alohafri: Bova!; Posts : 1768
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Post n°11

Re: Both Tribes Suck!

by alohafri Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:09 am

blondy28 wrote:

alohafri wrote:Both tribes suck because both tribes have adopted a "if you aren't with us, you are against us" mentality. "It's not enough for dogs to win, cats must lose." Fuck that zero sum mentality. Let's go ahead and adopt everything that the douchebag Squad wants us to adopt without any restrictions. We're fucked. Let's go ahead and adopt everything that the douchebags like Cawthorn, the scumbag from Georgia, the criminal from Colorado, and the molester from Ohio want us to adopt without any restrictions. We're fucked. The reason this country has been successful until now is the willingness to compromise. Compromise is dead. These jagoffs in Congress are playing to television cameras. They don't give a fuck about any of us except for ratings and hits. Fuck them all.

Nancy Pelosi is against student loan forgiveness, and Joe Biden is against legalizing weed. Let me know how I should feel about them.

Like them both. Fuck weed, and pay for your education. You're welcome.

alohafri

alohafri: Bova!; Posts : 1768
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Post n°12

Re: Both Tribes Suck!

by alohafri Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:11 am

Oh, and don't follow politicians into the restroom with your camera phone.

SoxIlliniRob

SoxIlliniRob: Bova!; Posts : 1942
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Post n°13

Re: Both Tribes Suck!

by SoxIlliniRob Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:00 pm

alohafri wrote:Oh, and don't follow politicians into the restroom with your camera phone.

Yeah, that was a little much. As much as I dislike that stupid twat Sinema, the last thing I wanna do is follow her into the bathroom to further harass her. Ugh. People are fucking numbnuts.

SoxIlliniRob

SoxIlliniRob: Bova!; Posts : 1942
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Post n°14

Re: Both Tribes Suck!

by SoxIlliniRob Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:05 pm

alohafri wrote:

blondy28 wrote:

alohafri wrote:Both tribes suck because both tribes have adopted a "if you aren't with us, you are against us" mentality. "It's not enough for dogs to win, cats must lose." Fuck that zero sum mentality. Let's go ahead and adopt everything that the douchebag Squad wants us to adopt without any restrictions. We're fucked. Let's go ahead and adopt everything that the douchebags like Cawthorn, the scumbag from Georgia, the criminal from Colorado, and the molester from Ohio want us to adopt without any restrictions. We're fucked. The reason this country has been successful until now is the willingness to compromise. Compromise is dead. These jagoffs in Congress are playing to television cameras. They don't give a fuck about any of us except for ratings and hits. Fuck them all.

Nancy Pelosi is against student loan forgiveness, and Joe Biden is against legalizing weed. Let me know how I should feel about them.

Like them both. Fuck weed, and pay for your education. You're welcome.

I feel like the legal weed thing is pretty much a no-brainer. There's pretty objective data out there showing that alcohol is a far greater detriment to society in terms of the effects on the human body and human condition. I don't smoke the stuff and haven't any interest, and I don't drink much, either, but if I had to choose which of the two to outlaw, I'd outlaw booze in a fucking heartbeat without a second thought.

Paying for school, for me, is a much more gray area. I'm open to free college. I'm open to waiving college debt. I'm also open to arguments against it. I mean, we provide free school for K-12. Who decided this is the proper amount of free school? Maybe it ought to be less. Maybe it ought to be more. I'm sure there's data out there (that I have NOT seen) that compares the levels of poverty and economic success in nations with free college versus pay college, and maybe some studies that suggest we ought to not even have free high school. I don't feel like I have the answer on this (enjoy this rare moment), but I love it as a discussion topic.

blondy28

blondy28: Bova!; Posts : 1804
Join date : 2017-05-06

Post n°15

Re: Both Tribes Suck!

by blondy28 Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:41 pm

alohafri wrote:

blondy28 wrote:

alohafri wrote:Both tribes suck because both tribes have adopted a "if you aren't with us, you are against us" mentality. "It's not enough for dogs to win, cats must lose." Fuck that zero sum mentality. Let's go ahead and adopt everything that the douchebag Squad wants us to adopt without any restrictions. We're fucked. Let's go ahead and adopt everything that the douchebags like Cawthorn, the scumbag from Georgia, the criminal from Colorado, and the molester from Ohio want us to adopt without any restrictions. We're fucked. The reason this country has been successful until now is the willingness to compromise. Compromise is dead. These jagoffs in Congress are playing to television cameras. They don't give a fuck about any of us except for ratings and hits. Fuck them all.

Nancy Pelosi is against student loan forgiveness, and Joe Biden is against legalizing weed. Let me know how I should feel about them.

Like them both. Fuck weed, and pay for your education. You're welcome.

My son's livelihood depends on selling weed...and, you know, freedom. I'll change my position on student loan forgiveness as soon as we stop giving Wall Street bailouts. They owe me for the housing crisis, and the 2018 tax scam cost me about what 2 of my kids owe in their student loans. We'll call it even.

SoxIlliniRob

SoxIlliniRob: Bova!; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2017-05-05
Age : 58
Location : Saint Charles, IL

Post n°16

Re: Both Tribes Suck!

by SoxIlliniRob Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:49 pm

blondy28 wrote:

alohafri wrote:

blondy28 wrote:

alohafri wrote:Both tribes suck because both tribes have adopted a "if you aren't with us, you are against us" mentality. "It's not enough for dogs to win, cats must lose." Fuck that zero sum mentality. Let's go ahead and adopt everything that the douchebag Squad wants us to adopt without any restrictions. We're fucked. Let's go ahead and adopt everything that the douchebags like Cawthorn, the scumbag from Georgia, the criminal from Colorado, and the molester from Ohio want us to adopt without any restrictions. We're fucked. The reason this country has been successful until now is the willingness to compromise. Compromise is dead. These jagoffs in Congress are playing to television cameras. They don't give a fuck about any of us except for ratings and hits. Fuck them all.

Nancy Pelosi is against student loan forgiveness, and Joe Biden is against legalizing weed. Let me know how I should feel about them.

Like them both. Fuck weed, and pay for your education. You're welcome.

My son's livelihood depends on selling weed...and, you know, freedom. I'll change my position on student loan forgiveness as soon as we stop giving Wall Street bailouts. They owe me for the housing crisis, and the 2018 tax scam cost me about what 2 of my kids owe in their student loans. We'll call it even.

I just can't get over how awful Dems are at messaging some of this stuff regarding the billionaire tax cuts while someone like you pays more in taxes while her kids are in school. I had the same increase in taxes that you experienced. the peons cheer their $400 or $500 more per year while millionaires become billionaires and the income divide grows larger.

I view the reconciliation bill as an effort to return some of the middle class lost wealth of the last 40 yrs back to the working class through benefits like free community college or dental and eye care for Medicare recipients or child care for working moms. We sit back and watch the mega rich fucks get mega richer and we quake at the thought of them paying 5% more each year in taxes, or at the thought of someone making a few bucks more per hour via a higher min wage. I've kind of looked at the current economic situation, where nobody seems willing to work for under 15/hr, as an accidental and indirect raising of the minimum wage. For a while, I bought the notion that everyone was awaiting the end of the Covid unemployment perks, but nothing changed when it ended, and several states ended it in June and it didn't change anything there, either. Not totally sure what the explanation is, but Covid really turned some shit upside down.

blondy28

blondy28: Bova!; Posts : 1804
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Post n°17

Re: Both Tribes Suck!

by blondy28 Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:30 pm

alohafri wrote:Oh, and don't follow politicians into the restroom with your camera phone.

The hypocrisy that the politicians screaming the loudest about this were in favor of inspecting genitalia of people using public restrooms is not lost on me.

Re: Both Tribes Suck!

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Both Tribes Suck!