Stormy Daniels

blondy28 wrote:

Do you think pray-away-the-gay camps should be legal?

Sure.  If people want to pray away their gay, more power to them.  Wouldn't want to see anyone forced to go there, nor should minors be ever forced to go there.

sharpy wrote:Nice discussion. People have moved b/c of discrimination and prejudice since this country was formed. Why do you think people came to the Americas initially? or How the west was settled? people running from where they were. Gays have moved from small towns to, initially San Francisco, but now to many bigger and more inviting cities. Non gays have moved out of small towns as well b/c of lack of opportunity, or b/c they didn't feel like they belonged. The Unabomber grew up in Chicago and moved to the rural sticks of Montana - had his reasons. So I don't see where moving is not an acceptable alternative. As for kids - grow up and leave. Like millions have - b/c they were gay. because they wanted to make it big on broadway, for whatever reason. Is any of this "right"? or "fair" ...fuck no. But that's the Christian nation we live in.  When billy grahams kid says Trump is the hand of God b/c how else could he win when he pissed everyone off unless God made it so, morals, ethics and the Golden Rule don't really exist in this country and never will. (that's like saying Hitler or Stalin were God's choices b/c they were such vile human beings how else could they win without God's help?) Get over the thought and the dream that people are "basically good"  and make due with the chickenshit given us all. And in reality, if you want to be a powerbroker? Millionaire? big shot? you take the chicken shit given you and pile it on the guy next to you. If you could live with yourself after doing so. Most of us can't, which is basically what saves any sort of society. 

The Unabomber graduated from Harvard and went on to get a PhD.  He was a man of means.  He lived all over the United States, and ultimately ended up in Montana.  Not everyone has means or ability to pick up and move because some jackass won't sell them gas.  See, I sort of agree with Rob in that government can't discriminate, but I am of the opinion that few, if any, businesses (can't think of any) that don't utilize some form of tax-payer funded entity to conduct business, even if it's only the road that leads up to their business that my tax dollars pay to pave.  So I don't make the distinction between public and private when private has some kind of public entity necessary to conduct business.  You wanna discriminate?  You figure out how to conduct your blacks-free diner without access from a public street.

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

blondy28 wrote:

Do you think pray-away-the-gay camps should be legal?

Sure.  If people want to pray away their gay, more power to them.  Wouldn't want to see anyone forced to go there, nor should minors be ever forced to go there.

I'm referring to minors.  If you believe in freedom...and certainly you believe that Nazis can raise their kids to be Jew-haters...then why wouldn't you allow parents to force their kids to go to a pray away the gay camp?

blondy28 wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

blondy28 wrote:

Do you think pray-away-the-gay camps should be legal?

Sure.  If people want to pray away their gay, more power to them.  Wouldn't want to see anyone forced to go there, nor should minors be ever forced to go there.

I'm referring to minors.  If you believe in freedom...and certainly you believe that Nazis can raise their kids to be Jew-haters...then why wouldn't you allow parents to force their kids to go to a pray away the gay camp?

Is there not some pretty objective data or studies out there that finds that kids that attend these camps are something like 3x or 4x more prone to suicide?  Maybe a case can be made that sending them to these camps is a safety/health risk.

Good points you make in this realm.  I wonder if they couldn't state that any service their business uses that's federally or municipally regulated would be off limits for their company's use if they are going to go work against the government's policy of no discriminating.  No US mail delivery to your address.  No police service.  No fire protection.  Not sure you could pull off the last two, since they are public welfare and safety, but what about power and water?  Those are federally regulated utilities.  The gov't provides many services and pays to regulate many other services to the private sector....so if there's a winning argument that can be made that compels service to all comers, it might have to be through this particular channel.

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

blondy28 wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

blondy28 wrote:

Do you think pray-away-the-gay camps should be legal?

Sure.  If people want to pray away their gay, more power to them.  Wouldn't want to see anyone forced to go there, nor should minors be ever forced to go there.

I'm referring to minors.  If you believe in freedom...and certainly you believe that Nazis can raise their kids to be Jew-haters...then why wouldn't you allow parents to force their kids to go to a pray away the gay camp?

Is there not some pretty objective data or studies out there that finds that kids that attend these camps are something like 3x or 4x more prone to suicide?  Maybe a case can be made that sending them to these camps is a safety/health risk.

I suspect that people would argue that trans/gay people are more prone to suicide in general.

blondy28 wrote:

Is there not some pretty objective data or studies out there that finds that kids that attend these camps are something like 3x or 4x more prone to suicide?  Maybe a case can be made that sending them to these camps is a safety/health risk.

I suspect that people would argue that trans/gay people are more prone to suicide in general.

Understood, but I believe the data says that an openly gay kid that attends those camps is significantly more prone to suicide than an openly gay kid that doesn't attend.  Obviously, there are other factors, such as the fact that a gay kid attending that camp is probably the member of a nutso family with horrible parents.