Biden

jaywit wrote:I'm not feeling good about Biden.  Anyone on the democratic side would get my vote over Trump but, geez, how is this guy going to hold up?  Here is an excerpt from the climate forum.


[ltr]“How can we trust you to hold these corporations and executives accountable for their crimes against humanity,” Isaac Larkin, a 27-year-old PhD candidate at Northwestern, asked Joe Biden, “when we know that tomorrow you are holding a high-dollar fund-raiser hosted by Andrew Goldman, a fossil fuel executive?”[/ltr]


[ltr]Biden, who has signed a pledge not to take contributions of more than $200 from fossil fuel executives, was caught off-guard by the question. “Well, I didn’t realize he does that,’’ he responded, referring to Goldman, who was identified in one 2018 filing as “a long-term investor in the liquefied natural gas sector.”[/ltr]

SoxIlliniRob wrote:He is a gaffe machine, but I think folks know that underneath the gaffes is a good, honest guy.  He has lost several steps but I still won't be surprised if he grabs the nomination anyway.  Ultimately, I expect a Biden/Warren slugfest.  I love Warren but worry she would get her ass kicked by Trump.

One thing that ought to be considered, however, is whether a Biden nomination would slow voter interest.  It's likely to lessen excitement from the youth vote, who rarely vote anyway.  Biden is the most middle of the road and might get some former Trump voters to vote for him.  On the opposite side, Warren might excite a shit-ton of young voters to come out that might ordinarily not come out, but might reduce black folk turnout and reduce crossover votes from Trump because she'll be painted as a radical socialist.  I'm scared to death of her being the nominee, but I really like her, actually.

alohafri wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:He is a gaffe machine, but I think folks know that underneath the gaffes is a good, honest guy.  He has lost several steps but I still won't be surprised if he grabs the nomination anyway.  Ultimately, I expect a Biden/Warren slugfest.  I love Warren but worry she would get her ass kicked by Trump.

One thing that ought to be considered, however, is whether a Biden nomination would slow voter interest.  It's likely to lessen excitement from the youth vote, who rarely vote anyway.  Biden is the most middle of the road and might get some former Trump voters to vote for him.  On the opposite side, Warren might excite a shit-ton of young voters to come out that might ordinarily not come out, but might reduce black folk turnout and reduce crossover votes from Trump because she'll be painted as a radical socialist.  I'm scared to death of her being the nominee, but I really like her, actually.

You are going to get more people like me to vote for Biden than you will for Warren or Harris. The goal is to defeat Trump, not to put out the most liberal candidate out there. And with Warren and Harris already talking about how they would use Executive Orders...that's part of the problem.

sharpy wrote:are the numbers for moderate independents/moderate Republicans higher than young people who got out to vote for Obama but didn't go to the polls for Hillary?


When 53% of WOMEN voted against Hiliary, it is wrong to blame the "young" voters for her loss.  It is an abomination that she didn't garner 80% of the female vote … sickening

cream919 wrote:Biden won't have an ice cubes chance in hell of beating Trump. I like Joe but he's past his sell date. He's making one gaffe after another and things haven't even started to get hairy yet. Trump will make a mockery of him. In truth, NONE of the democratic candidates have exactly been blowing a breeze up my skirt but whomever the candidate is will have my vote.

Come on Kevin...I get that a grand ole party supporter like you would have a problem with some of the democratic candidates, but Jesus Christ give me a break. Are you suggesting that ANY of those candidates would make a worse president than Trump? If so, who would they be? Also bear in mind that if you chose to sit out the election or vote for some third party candidate what you've done, in effect, is make things easier for Trump to get re-elected. Essentially a "ghost" vote for him. Like it or not, if you want to get rid of Trump you're going to have to hold your nose in the voting booth....like many other republicans. Sorry...but the republicans have created and enabled this monster. It is what it is.

blondy28 wrote:

alohafri wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:He is a gaffe machine, but I think folks know that underneath the gaffes is a good, honest guy.  He has lost several steps but I still won't be surprised if he grabs the nomination anyway.  Ultimately, I expect a Biden/Warren slugfest.  I love Warren but worry she would get her ass kicked by Trump.

One thing that ought to be considered, however, is whether a Biden nomination would slow voter interest.  It's likely to lessen excitement from the youth vote, who rarely vote anyway.  Biden is the most middle of the road and might get some former Trump voters to vote for him.  On the opposite side, Warren might excite a shit-ton of young voters to come out that might ordinarily not come out, but might reduce black folk turnout and reduce crossover votes from Trump because she'll be painted as a radical socialist.  I'm scared to death of her being the nominee, but I really like her, actually.

You are going to get more people like me to vote for Biden than you will for Warren or Harris. The goal is to defeat Trump, not to put out the most liberal candidate out there. And with Warren and Harris already talking about how they would use Executive Orders...that's part of the problem.

I haven't heard what they've said they would use Executive Orders for, but seems the conservatives had a problem with that...until Trump used them...which begs the question that if something is in effect through an Executive Order, isn't the easiest way to undo that with another Executive Order?  I mean, I get that legislation prevents it from being easily undone, but with the Supreme Court pretty much conservative for my lifetime, I have no doubt that they will undo every single piece of legislation passed by non-conservatives. 

If Warren or Harris are the candidate, will you vote for Trump?  Not vote?  My son is very politically engaged, much like the Parkland kids, so I know that those young folks are voting blue no matter who, but are the numbers for moderate independents/moderate Republicans higher than young people who got out to vote for Obama but didn't go to the polls for Hillary?

alohafri wrote:

cream919 wrote:Biden won't have an ice cubes chance in hell of beating Trump. I like Joe but he's past his sell date. He's making one gaffe after another and things haven't even started to get hairy yet. Trump will make a mockery of him. In truth, NONE of the democratic candidates have exactly been blowing a breeze up my skirt but whomever the candidate is will have my vote.

Come on Kevin...I get that a grand ole party supporter like you would have a problem with some of the democratic candidates, but Jesus Christ give me a break. Are you suggesting that ANY of those candidates would make a worse president than Trump? If so, who would they be? Also bear in mind that if you chose to sit out the election or vote for some third party candidate what you've done, in effect, is make things easier for Trump to get re-elected. Essentially a "ghost" vote for him. Like it or not, if you want to get rid of Trump you're going to have to hold your nose in the voting booth....like many other republicans. Sorry...but the republicans have created and enabled this monster. It is what it is.

Sorry. I'm not going to participate in this "they go far to the right, we are going to go even farther to the left" bullshit. I'll sit the fuck out. If you think my vote in Illinois is going to put Trump over the top here, you need to read up on the Electoral College. I'll tell you what. If Trump wins Illinois' electoral votes by my one vote, I will put a bumper sticker on my car saying "It's my fault."

blondy28 wrote:

alohafri wrote:

cream919 wrote:Biden won't have an ice cubes chance in hell of beating Trump. I like Joe but he's past his sell date. He's making one gaffe after another and things haven't even started to get hairy yet. Trump will make a mockery of him. In truth, NONE of the democratic candidates have exactly been blowing a breeze up my skirt but whomever the candidate is will have my vote.

Come on Kevin...I get that a grand ole party supporter like you would have a problem with some of the democratic candidates, but Jesus Christ give me a break. Are you suggesting that ANY of those candidates would make a worse president than Trump? If so, who would they be? Also bear in mind that if you chose to sit out the election or vote for some third party candidate what you've done, in effect, is make things easier for Trump to get re-elected. Essentially a "ghost" vote for him. Like it or not, if you want to get rid of Trump you're going to have to hold your nose in the voting booth....like many other republicans. Sorry...but the republicans have created and enabled this monster. It is what it is.

Sorry. I'm not going to participate in this "they go far to the right, we are going to go even farther to the left" bullshit. I'll sit the fuck out. If you think my vote in Illinois is going to put Trump over the top here, you need to read up on the Electoral College. I'll tell you what. If Trump wins Illinois' electoral votes by my one vote, I will put a bumper sticker on my car saying "It's my fault."

It's sad in our system that none of our votes count.  

But let's pretend it did.  Is this actually about "far right" or "far left"?  Is the biggest knock on Trump his ideology (which in many cases, I don't think he actually believes outside of the ideology of making himself rich...unless you think he really thinks the best book ever is the Bible?), or is about the fact that he is a buffoon who might get us all killed, who pisses on the constitution on a daily basis, with the help of the DOJ?  That he wants to shut down the free press?  This is beyond partisan politics.  The congress fought a moderate like Obama tooth and nail and they stopped his agenda dead in its tracks...even refusing to support things that they had previously supported because they didn't want to give him a victory.  I would imagine that even if the most far left candidate becomes president that you would see much of the same, but at least they would restore the institution.  I would think that's far preferable (again, pretending that your vote actually counted).

And on that topic...interesting reading:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/winner-presidential-elections-unconstitutional-unfair-071505397.html

SoxIlliniRob wrote:He is a gaffe machine, but I think folks know that underneath the gaffes is a good, honest guy.  He has lost several steps but I still won't be surprised if he grabs the nomination anyway.  Ultimately, I expect a Biden/Warren slugfest.  I love Warren but worry she would get her ass kicked by Trump.

One thing that ought to be considered, however, is whether a Biden nomination would slow voter interest.  It's likely to lessen excitement from the youth vote, who rarely vote anyway.  Biden is the most middle of the road and might get some former Trump voters to vote for him.  On the opposite side, Warren might excite a shit-ton of young voters to come out that might ordinarily not come out, but might reduce black folk turnout and reduce crossover votes from Trump because she'll be painted as a radical socialist.  I'm scared to death of her being the nominee, but I really like her, actually.

blondy28 wrote:

alohafri wrote:

cream919 wrote:Biden won't have an ice cubes chance in hell of beating Trump. I like Joe but he's past his sell date. He's making one gaffe after another and things haven't even started to get hairy yet. Trump will make a mockery of him. In truth, NONE of the democratic candidates have exactly been blowing a breeze up my skirt but whomever the candidate is will have my vote.

Come on Kevin...I get that a grand ole party supporter like you would have a problem with some of the democratic candidates, but Jesus Christ give me a break. Are you suggesting that ANY of those candidates would make a worse president than Trump? If so, who would they be? Also bear in mind that if you chose to sit out the election or vote for some third party candidate what you've done, in effect, is make things easier for Trump to get re-elected. Essentially a "ghost" vote for him. Like it or not, if you want to get rid of Trump you're going to have to hold your nose in the voting booth....like many other republicans. Sorry...but the republicans have created and enabled this monster. It is what it is.

Sorry. I'm not going to participate in this "they go far to the right, we are going to go even farther to the left" bullshit. I'll sit the fuck out. If you think my vote in Illinois is going to put Trump over the top here, you need to read up on the Electoral College. I'll tell you what. If Trump wins Illinois' electoral votes by my one vote, I will put a bumper sticker on my car saying "It's my fault."

It's sad in our system that none of our votes count.  

But let's pretend it did.  Is this actually about "far right" or "far left"?  Is the biggest knock on Trump his ideology (which in many cases, I don't think he actually believes outside of the ideology of making himself rich...unless you think he really thinks the best book ever is the Bible?), or is about the fact that he is a buffoon who might get us all killed, who pisses on the constitution on a daily basis, with the help of the DOJ?  That he wants to shut down the free press?  This is beyond partisan politics.  The congress fought a moderate like Obama tooth and nail and they stopped his agenda dead in its tracks...even refusing to support things that they had previously supported because they didn't want to give him a victory.  I would imagine that even if the most far left candidate becomes president that you would see much of the same, but at least they would restore the institution.  I would think that's far preferable (again, pretending that your vote actually counted).

And on that topic...interesting reading:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/winner-presidential-elections-unconstitutional-unfair-071505397.html

SoxIlliniRob wrote:C'mon Blondy. Not even Marsha Blackburn?  Or how about the Alabama governor...Faye Ivee?  They're awesome.  

I think I could live with Nicky Haley.

SoxIlliniRob wrote:My thoughts exactly, Pam.  A far leftist is not going to accomplish much, but a Warren, or Mayor Pete, or whomever, is going to respect the office and bring it back to ordinary business and respectful conduct.  You don't have to like a Mayor Pete and all of his gayness, but the daily shitshow will go away, and I'd think that'd be far preferable to this mayhem.  The GOP would then have four years to figure out a sane nominee, like Kasich or Haley, to run against any far left Dem.  Of course, the talk is that it's almost a slam dunk that Trump Jr. will be the GOP nominee in 2024.

alohafri wrote:

blondy28 wrote:

alohafri wrote:

cream919 wrote:Biden won't have an ice cubes chance in hell of beating Trump. I like Joe but he's past his sell date. He's making one gaffe after another and things haven't even started to get hairy yet. Trump will make a mockery of him. In truth, NONE of the democratic candidates have exactly been blowing a breeze up my skirt but whomever the candidate is will have my vote.

Come on Kevin...I get that a grand ole party supporter like you would have a problem with some of the democratic candidates, but Jesus Christ give me a break. Are you suggesting that ANY of those candidates would make a worse president than Trump? If so, who would they be? Also bear in mind that if you chose to sit out the election or vote for some third party candidate what you've done, in effect, is make things easier for Trump to get re-elected. Essentially a "ghost" vote for him. Like it or not, if you want to get rid of Trump you're going to have to hold your nose in the voting booth....like many other republicans. Sorry...but the republicans have created and enabled this monster. It is what it is.

Sorry. I'm not going to participate in this "they go far to the right, we are going to go even farther to the left" bullshit. I'll sit the fuck out. If you think my vote in Illinois is going to put Trump over the top here, you need to read up on the Electoral College. I'll tell you what. If Trump wins Illinois' electoral votes by my one vote, I will put a bumper sticker on my car saying "It's my fault."

It's sad in our system that none of our votes count.  

But let's pretend it did.  Is this actually about "far right" or "far left"?  Is the biggest knock on Trump his ideology (which in many cases, I don't think he actually believes outside of the ideology of making himself rich...unless you think he really thinks the best book ever is the Bible?), or is about the fact that he is a buffoon who might get us all killed, who pisses on the constitution on a daily basis, with the help of the DOJ?  That he wants to shut down the free press?  This is beyond partisan politics.  The congress fought a moderate like Obama tooth and nail and they stopped his agenda dead in its tracks...even refusing to support things that they had previously supported because they didn't want to give him a victory.  I would imagine that even if the most far left candidate becomes president that you would see much of the same, but at least they would restore the institution.  I would think that's far preferable (again, pretending that your vote actually counted).

And on that topic...interesting reading:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/winner-presidential-elections-unconstitutional-unfair-071505397.html

Do you even listen to what the knucklehead Trump supporters say? To them, Trump is far right and he is doing them right (by right here, I mean correct). The Trump propaganda machine is going to do everything it can to promote Warren, or Bernie, or O'Roarke, or whoever, as "far left crackpots. O'Roarke already lost me with his "abortion until the baby is coming out", so he can fuck off. The comment I posted was from some Yahoo poster who is obviously a cultist. You're not going to do to change his mind. But what about the guy who sees Trump as a semi-harmless goof who likes a few of the things the Orange man says? "Hey, he's against political correctness like I am, and I keep hearing how Warren is a pinko commie. Maybe I should vote for him. I didn't last time, but I haven't been to hurt by what he's done." These are the people who are going to be extremely susceptible to the propaganda, whether it is from Russia, North Korea, or Sean Hannity. This is a person who could vote for Joe Biden, maybe considering him "grandfatherly", but would never vote for someone they consider left of Lenin.

sharpy wrote:Has there ever been a "socialist" country in this world?  Not a communist country, but a socialist country as it was described by Marx -?  I can't think of one....probably the closet to one is Belgium or Norway.. maybe Sweden is in the running, and they are only year after year found to have the happiest people in the world.  No democratic candidate has ever ran on being a socialist, or wanting socialism or advocating socialism. No candidate has ever run on nationalizing the businesses of the country, or collecting all the cash and doling it out evenly ..or stopping the most corrupt economic system in the world from continuing to be corrupt and the most polarizing economic system in the world.  But yet, mention health care, social support, etc and you're a socialist.  Well if that's the case, 95% of the countries on this world are socialists. Think maybe some Dem candidate would possibly bring this up and defend their opinion in a way that someone will understand it?  or Realize it ?   HA... pipe dream

As for abortion. Whats the percentage of people FOR abortion?  5%? 10%?  Not the percentage for Pro Choice- but actually for every woman willy nilly getting an abortion at the drop of a hat?  Can't believe it much past a small percentage. That said, didn't abortion start out as being legal if done before the end of the 12th week?  And since 77% of WOMEN feel there should be some limits on abortion, whats wrong with going back to the original legality = 12 weeks. I fact, it's my contention that if you don't know by 12 weeks, or if you decide later than 12 weeks, you aren't doing it for the right reasons, but doing it for selfish reasons -

SoxIlliniRob wrote:C'mon Blondy. Not even Marsha Blackburn?  Or how about the Alabama governor...Faye Ivee?  They're awesome.  

I think I could live with Nicky Haley.