Taking down statues of Confederate "heroes" (or traitors as I like to call them)? Good. Removing the Confederate flag from public display, the flag of traitors? Good. Eliminating the brand name "Aunt Jemimah" as a business decision by a private company? Sure, good. Changing the name of the Texas Rangers as suggested by Steve Chapman? One step too far. Tearing down statues or defacing statues of Thomas Jefferson and George Washington? One step too far.
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There is always a limit that people want to cross
alohafri- Bova!
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blondy28- Bova!
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alohafri wrote:Taking down statues of Confederate "heroes" (or traitors as I like to call them)? Good. Removing the Confederate flag from public display, the flag of traitors? Good. Eliminating the brand name "Aunt Jemimah" as a business decision by a private company? Sure, good. Changing the name of the Texas Rangers as suggested by Steve Chapman? One step too far. Tearing down statues or defacing statues of Thomas Jefferson and George Washington? One step too far.
I thought Steve Chapman was the guy who wrote Go Cubs Go. Had to look that up. I remain of the opinion that any team affiliated with George W. Bush should be banned from the league. I had given the Bush family a pass given who we are dealing with now, but then I think of the Bill Barr, and now I have to go back to blaming the Bush family for the hot mess we find ourselves in.
Don't necessarily think we should tear down or deface Jefferson or Washington statues, but one of Jefferson's ancestors has made a case in favor of it, and I think he has more standing on it than I do.
alohafri- Bova!
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blondy28 wrote:alohafri wrote:Taking down statues of Confederate "heroes" (or traitors as I like to call them)? Good. Removing the Confederate flag from public display, the flag of traitors? Good. Eliminating the brand name "Aunt Jemimah" as a business decision by a private company? Sure, good. Changing the name of the Texas Rangers as suggested by Steve Chapman? One step too far. Tearing down statues or defacing statues of Thomas Jefferson and George Washington? One step too far.
I thought Steve Chapman was the guy who wrote Go Cubs Go. Had to look that up. I remain of the opinion that any team affiliated with George W. Bush should be banned from the league. I had given the Bush family a pass given who we are dealing with now, but then I think of the Bill Barr, and now I have to go back to blaming the Bush family for the hot mess we find ourselves in.
Don't necessarily think we should tear down or deface Jefferson or Washington statues, but one of Jefferson's ancestors has made a case in favor of it, and I think he has more standing on it than I do.
I disagree. The question is where do we draw the line? Someone who owned slaves when it was legal to do so? There is a John Lennon statue in Tampa, Florida. Should that be taken down because he took drugs when all drugs were illegal? Anyone with a harebrained idea about someone can make an argument as to why there shouldn't be a memorial to that person. Ali dodged the draft. Kennedy was a womanizer. Lincoln made some statements that would be considered racist by today's standards. Where is the line? An obvious line would be members of a nation who raised their guns against the United States.
alohafri- Bova!
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blondy28 wrote:
I thought Steve Chapman was the guy who wrote Go Cubs Go.
LOL My wife thought it was Steve Earle!
blondy28- Bova!
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alohafri wrote:blondy28 wrote:alohafri wrote:Taking down statues of Confederate "heroes" (or traitors as I like to call them)? Good. Removing the Confederate flag from public display, the flag of traitors? Good. Eliminating the brand name "Aunt Jemimah" as a business decision by a private company? Sure, good. Changing the name of the Texas Rangers as suggested by Steve Chapman? One step too far. Tearing down statues or defacing statues of Thomas Jefferson and George Washington? One step too far.
I thought Steve Chapman was the guy who wrote Go Cubs Go. Had to look that up. I remain of the opinion that any team affiliated with George W. Bush should be banned from the league. I had given the Bush family a pass given who we are dealing with now, but then I think of the Bill Barr, and now I have to go back to blaming the Bush family for the hot mess we find ourselves in.
Don't necessarily think we should tear down or deface Jefferson or Washington statues, but one of Jefferson's ancestors has made a case in favor of it, and I think he has more standing on it than I do.
I disagree. The question is where do we draw the line? Someone who owned slaves when it was legal to do so? There is a John Lennon statue in Tampa, Florida. Should that be taken down because he took drugs when all drugs were illegal? Anyone with a harebrained idea about someone can make an argument as to why there shouldn't be a memorial to that person. Ali dodged the draft. Kennedy was a womanizer. Lincoln made some statements that would be considered racist by today's standards. Where is the line? An obvious line would be members of a nation who raised their guns against the United States.
Dunno where the line is. I read an article about Nancy Pelosi removing the portraits of the speakers of the house who were confederates, while Dennis Hastert's portrait is not being removed. He didn't raise guns against the United States, but he was a child molester.
blondy28- Bova!
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alohafri wrote:blondy28 wrote:
I thought Steve Chapman was the guy who wrote Go Cubs Go.
LOL My wife thought it was Steve Earle!
Much like John Prine, Steve Earle was brought to me by my XRT listening husband that I never would have heard of if not for him. Copperhead Road was one of my favorite CDs. Oddly, second only to Go Cubs Go.
alohafri- Bova!
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blondy28 wrote:alohafri wrote:blondy28 wrote:alohafri wrote:Taking down statues of Confederate "heroes" (or traitors as I like to call them)? Good. Removing the Confederate flag from public display, the flag of traitors? Good. Eliminating the brand name "Aunt Jemimah" as a business decision by a private company? Sure, good. Changing the name of the Texas Rangers as suggested by Steve Chapman? One step too far. Tearing down statues or defacing statues of Thomas Jefferson and George Washington? One step too far.
I thought Steve Chapman was the guy who wrote Go Cubs Go. Had to look that up. I remain of the opinion that any team affiliated with George W. Bush should be banned from the league. I had given the Bush family a pass given who we are dealing with now, but then I think of the Bill Barr, and now I have to go back to blaming the Bush family for the hot mess we find ourselves in.
Don't necessarily think we should tear down or deface Jefferson or Washington statues, but one of Jefferson's ancestors has made a case in favor of it, and I think he has more standing on it than I do.
I disagree. The question is where do we draw the line? Someone who owned slaves when it was legal to do so? There is a John Lennon statue in Tampa, Florida. Should that be taken down because he took drugs when all drugs were illegal? Anyone with a harebrained idea about someone can make an argument as to why there shouldn't be a memorial to that person. Ali dodged the draft. Kennedy was a womanizer. Lincoln made some statements that would be considered racist by today's standards. Where is the line? An obvious line would be members of a nation who raised their guns against the United States.
Dunno where the line is. I read an article about Nancy Pelosi removing the portraits of the speakers of the house who were confederates, while Dennis Hastert's portrait is not being removed. He didn't raise guns against the United States, but he was a child molester.
You could argue that Hastert's crimes were not committed when he was House Speaker. Nixon's portrait remains and he resigned in shame. His crimes were committed when he was President (even thought he never went to trial due to his resignation).
blondy28- Bova!
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alohafri wrote:blondy28 wrote:alohafri wrote:blondy28 wrote:alohafri wrote:Taking down statues of Confederate "heroes" (or traitors as I like to call them)? Good. Removing the Confederate flag from public display, the flag of traitors? Good. Eliminating the brand name "Aunt Jemimah" as a business decision by a private company? Sure, good. Changing the name of the Texas Rangers as suggested by Steve Chapman? One step too far. Tearing down statues or defacing statues of Thomas Jefferson and George Washington? One step too far.
I thought Steve Chapman was the guy who wrote Go Cubs Go. Had to look that up. I remain of the opinion that any team affiliated with George W. Bush should be banned from the league. I had given the Bush family a pass given who we are dealing with now, but then I think of the Bill Barr, and now I have to go back to blaming the Bush family for the hot mess we find ourselves in.
Don't necessarily think we should tear down or deface Jefferson or Washington statues, but one of Jefferson's ancestors has made a case in favor of it, and I think he has more standing on it than I do.
I disagree. The question is where do we draw the line? Someone who owned slaves when it was legal to do so? There is a John Lennon statue in Tampa, Florida. Should that be taken down because he took drugs when all drugs were illegal? Anyone with a harebrained idea about someone can make an argument as to why there shouldn't be a memorial to that person. Ali dodged the draft. Kennedy was a womanizer. Lincoln made some statements that would be considered racist by today's standards. Where is the line? An obvious line would be members of a nation who raised their guns against the United States.
Dunno where the line is. I read an article about Nancy Pelosi removing the portraits of the speakers of the house who were confederates, while Dennis Hastert's portrait is not being removed. He didn't raise guns against the United States, but he was a child molester.
You could argue that Hastert's crimes were not committed when he was House Speaker. Nixon's portrait remains and he resigned in shame. His crimes were committed when he was President (even thought he never went to trial due to his resignation).
And you could also argue that Hastert wasn't convicted of being a child molester. Of course, I would put that in the same category as Al Capone only being a tax cheat. We know what's what.
sharpy- Fanboy
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"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right".......
History is what happened. Its SHOULD NOT be altered or changed b/c some feel it, or the person, was wrong. History should not be white-washed, the future should be shaped to make it better than the past. Denying history occurred, changing Mark Twain's Huck Finn b/c it has the N-word in it, hating Jefferson b/c he owned slaves during a time almost everyone did, is wrong. Prohibiting "Gone with the Wind" from being seen is NOT what America is supposed to be -that is the past and the past should not be changed - make the future better - don't try to hide what has been done .
Oh... the above quote .... George Orwell "1984"
History is what happened. Its SHOULD NOT be altered or changed b/c some feel it, or the person, was wrong. History should not be white-washed, the future should be shaped to make it better than the past. Denying history occurred, changing Mark Twain's Huck Finn b/c it has the N-word in it, hating Jefferson b/c he owned slaves during a time almost everyone did, is wrong. Prohibiting "Gone with the Wind" from being seen is NOT what America is supposed to be -that is the past and the past should not be changed - make the future better - don't try to hide what has been done .
Oh... the above quote .... George Orwell "1984"
blondy28- Bova!
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sharpy wrote:"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right".......
History is what happened. Its SHOULD NOT be altered or changed b/c some feel it, or the person, was wrong. History should not be white-washed, the future should be shaped to make it better than the past. Denying history occurred, changing Mark Twain's Huck Finn b/c it has the N-word in it, hating Jefferson b/c he owned slaves during a time almost everyone did, is wrong. Prohibiting "Gone with the Wind" from being seen is NOT what America is supposed to be -that is the past and the past should not be changed - make the future better - don't try to hide what has been done .
Oh... the above quote .... George Orwell "1984"
Big fan of Gone With the Wind. Hated Huck Finn. Almost failed sophomore HS english cuz I didn't read it.
I think I'd subscribe to your position in full if I thought that we had moved beyond those stains. Flying the confederate flag in the south seems like it perpetuated an acceptance of racism...or at least the perception of it.
SoxIlliniRob- Bova!
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I would say that the argument for Keeping Jefferson and/or Washington statues around would be to keep them ever present in our minds for scrutiny of the great things they did, along with the not so great things they did (although legal) that warrant discussion and contemplation. At least they're known for being more than just slave owners or racists.
sharpy- Fanboy
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Flying the confederate flag in the south seems like it perpetuated an acceptance of racism...or at least the perception of it.
Now, you misunderstood. I didn't say you ACCEPT the past, or KEEP the past = no you better the past. Waving a confederate flag, to me, is like waving a Nazi or Rising Sun flag - representing an enemy of our country and should not be waved in public places, or anywhere government funds are used. Thats different than re-writing Huck Finn or banning Gone with the Wind .. way different
Now, you misunderstood. I didn't say you ACCEPT the past, or KEEP the past = no you better the past. Waving a confederate flag, to me, is like waving a Nazi or Rising Sun flag - representing an enemy of our country and should not be waved in public places, or anywhere government funds are used. Thats different than re-writing Huck Finn or banning Gone with the Wind .. way different
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