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    Single Payer Push

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    alohafri
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by alohafri on Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:19 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:



    The health care coverage is one of the main benefits of being a teacher. Sorry if you think it's selfish to want to hold on to that like grim death.

    It's not at all selfish to want the best for your family!  I don't mean to imply otherwise.  But I think we need, as a society, to decide what our national societal priorities are.  If we view ensuring equal access to healthcare and medicine as a priority, then we shouldn't expect any such achievement to come without sacrifice, be it cost or hassle or both.  

    Pam always hands off her annual benefits re-enrollment to me to handle, and usually asks me "are we making any changes or can I just check the box to leave it as is?"  I always say "I don't plan to make any changes", and then that's the last I hear of it.  Pam isn't a details person on stuff like this, so I can assure you that she is NOT filling out a new application or some kind of long, re-enrollment process.  She'd most surely pass that off on me, and she hasn't.  

    Now, back to the discussion of societal priorities and sacrifice.  I'm constantly taken aback by the argument that single payer will create "rationing of care."  This comes across to me as similar to saying that ending world hunger might mean I can't have as much food as I currently eat.  Isn't a concern for rationed care another way of saying "I want to carve 10% to 30% of Americans out of the healthcare process so that I never have to wait longer for my medical service?  THAT strikes me as selfish.  It amazes me that people say this with a straight face, some of whom are Christians or some other religion that purports to love one another.  Isn't rationed care the whole idea, i.e. I want everyone to have the same access that Pam and I have, even if it means I might get a little less?  Or have to wait a little longer?

    Chris Coons was on MSNBC yesterday (the only time I ever watch any of that type of program is at the health club because that's all they have on) and he was talking with the host, whoever she was, about the GOP using Sanders' push for single payer as a rallying cry for the current proposal (Graham/Cassidy I think). Coons seemed to be against both single payer and Graham/Cassidy, saying that there are at least two bipartisan bills being produced that many governors, both D and R, seem to be getting behind. 


    On a related note, you watch this crap. Have you seen Elizabeth MacDonald on Fox Business (another channel they seem to run constantly...maybe I need a new health club)? If she isn't the meanest looking woman on television, I don't know who is. And you can put her in front of a projector and run a movie on her forehead like a drive in movie.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:29 am

    alohafri wrote:


    Chris Coons was on MSNBC yesterday (the only time I ever watch any of that type of program is at the health club because that's all they have on) and he was talking with the host, whoever she was, about the GOP using Sanders' push for single payer as a rallying cry for the current proposal (Graham/Cassidy I think). Coons seemed to be against both single payer and Graham/Cassidy, saying that there are at least two bipartisan bills being produced that many governors, both D and R, seem to be getting behind. 


    On a related note, you watch this crap. Have you seen Elizabeth MacDonald on Fox Business (another channel they seem to run constantly...maybe I need a new health club)? If she isn't the meanest looking woman on television, I don't know who is. And you can put her in front of a projector and run a movie on her forehead like a drive in movie.

    Chris Coons is against single payer because it's currently politically expedient for him.  Remember when Obama was against marriage equality (even though many knew he wasn't)?  That said, yes there is a bill that's being slowly put together by a bipartisan group of, I believe 10 congress-folks (five from each party as memory serves), and they are trying to fix the problems with ACA and turn it into something more efficient, affordable and yada yada yada.  It'll likely never go anywhere, but it's nice to see someone working on it.  And if this Graham Cassidy thing falls apart, Trump might see pushing the new, bipartisan bill as a way to get some positive publicity for getting a "win" and for being bipartisan.  Maybe I shouldn't be so cynical. 

    I don't really watch Fox except in extreme circumstances, such as in a hotel where they only have THAT for political TV, so I can't comment on Eliz MacDonald.  When you say I watch this crap....I only watch Maddow with regularity, along with being willing to sit through MSNBC daytime news, since that doesn't strike me as overly slanted.  The other evening folks on MSNBC are fine, but not really must-see TV for me.  The daytime program at 3 pm with Nicole Wallace (a lifelong Conserverative and Republican) on MSNBC is actually a pretty good show.  MSNBC has a shit-ton of conservatives on their shows anymore.
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    Nomads44
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by Nomads44 on Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:09 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:I guess I just find myself perplexed on this topic sometimes.  I hear a guy like Nomads sounding unsure about single payer, even though HE IS ON SINGLE PAYER (not picking on you, Jim...just using you as a generic example to make a point).  I hear folks on this board or other boards who are vehemently against single payer (sometimes for fair reasons!) but they aren't at all against Medicare, which they'll be on in 5, 10, or 15 yrs.  Kark is renowned for giving his thousand reasons why single payer cannot and will not work, even though Medicare actually WORKS.  My father in law, a hard conservative who is on Medicare, rants endlessly about how terrible single payer would be even though he absolutely LOVES his single payer, gov't coverage. 

    I don't know that I am single payer, really.  VA covers most of my stuff.  I don't know if they are primary payer or if Medicare is.  My wife is still covered by my state insurance which I am able to keep until she goes on social security, which I guess will be next year sometime.  I am too stupid to understand how everything in this life fits together.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:46 pm

    Medicare and VA are government funded. That is single payer, with the US Treasury being the payer.
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    Nomads44
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by Nomads44 on Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:04 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Medicare and VA are government funded.  That is single payer, with the US Treasury being the payer.
    I failed to mention for things not covered by the VA, the state insurance (HealthLink) picks up as my secondary after Medicare.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:12 pm

    Seeing as how the US Govt is your primary payer, how is it working for you?
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    Nomads44
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by Nomads44 on Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:31 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Seeing as how the US Govt is your primary payer, how is it working for you?

    Very well, thank you.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:03 pm

    Nomads44 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Seeing as how the US Govt is your primary payer, how is it working for you?

    Very well, thank you.

    Ok, so as far as you are concerned, single payer works quite nicely.  Duly noted.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by alohafri on Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:25 am

    The VA seems to be working so well!
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:30 am

    alohafri wrote:The VA seems to be working so well!

    The folks I know that are using the VA report that they receive excellent care and treatment.  There are clearly some behind the scenes problems in the administration department, however.  The way they have allowed some vets to be stuck waiting without treatment is absolutely mind-boggling.  How on earth does a country do that to its vets?
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    sharpy
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by sharpy on Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:44 am

    VA does actually work pretty well. First large organization to have electronic medical records so your info is available everywhere in the US. Meds are much cheaper. Medicine is guideline and not for profit driven, and if they cannot provide a service they willingly cover care at a local hospital that does. Problems they have are all financial. They aren't funded enough. Why? Nobody wants their taxes to go up to fund the vets just like they don't want taxes to go up to fund people they feel are "unworthy". Just another example of our national "Christian" values. That's why "support the troops" is just marketing to make everyone feel better about young kids dying. If everyone "supported" the troops there wouldn't be any VA issues. BTW- we are one week away from 32 million people losing their healthcare, women being denigrated yet again, and pre-existing conditions fucking you for the rest of your lives. Thank God the meek will walk into the kingdom of heaven because the GOP Christians are making it easier to get there. 
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:05 am

    sharpy wrote:VA does actually work pretty well. First large organization to have electronic medical records so your info is available everywhere in the US. Meds are much cheaper. Medicine is guideline and not for profit driven, and if they cannot provide a service they willingly cover care at a local hospital that does. Problems they have are all financial. They aren't funded enough. Why? Nobody wants their taxes to go up to fund the vets just like they don't want taxes to go up to fund people they feel are "unworthy". Just another example of our national "Christian" values. That's why "support the troops" is just marketing to make everyone feel better about young kids dying. If everyone "supported" the troops there wouldn't be any VA issues. BTW- we are one week away from 32 million people losing their healthcare, women being denigrated yet again, and pre-existing conditions fucking you for the rest of your lives. Thank God the meek will walk into the kingdom of heaven because the GOP Christians are making it easier to get there. 

    It always amazes me how there's not a moment of second consideration when it comes to finding the money to blow the living shit out of some woebegone country, or expanding our military, but then try scaring up another few billion $$ to cover VA costs, or Medicare or Medicaid costs, and congress is all "Whoa, hold on a fucking minute...we gotta put this in committee and discuss it and figure out if it's deficit neutral, or have some kind of corresponding cut in spending elsewhere cuz we can't raise taxes on some trillionaire or billionaire."   And these are ALWAYS GOP senators saying this, while out of the other sides of their mouths talking about growing our military and supporting the troops.  It amazes me that folks are oblivious to this.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:10 am

    sharpy wrote: BTW- we are one week away from 32 million people losing their healthcare, women being denigrated yet again, and pre-existing conditions fucking you for the rest of your lives. Thank God the meek will walk into the kingdom of heaven because the GOP Christians are making it easier to get there. 

    The thing that truly amazes me on this, Tim, is that they are basically trying to push us back to making us have to pay extra for pre-existing conditions after declaring them, which means that if we somehow improperly declare them, they will again be able to deny coverage under some kind of bullshit claim that we misrepresented our medical history...and nobody is really making much noise about this.  I surely don't want to see something so ridiculous actually pass, but I can't deny that there's a sick part of me that wants to see this pass and see all of the knuckleheads that supported this dummy get their due by seeing their Medicaid go "Poof" or seeing them having to begin paying exorbitant up-charges to remain covered for their preexisting maladies and then wonder what happened.  Of course, Donald will be there to explain that it's just further evidence of the failure of Obamacare.

    frank bonifacic
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by frank bonifacic on Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:19 am

    sharpy wrote:VA does actually work pretty well. First large organization to have electronic medical records so your info is available everywhere in the US. Meds are much cheaper. Medicine is guideline and not for profit driven, and if they cannot provide a service they willingly cover care at a local hospital that does. Problems they have are all financial. They aren't funded enough. Why? Nobody wants their taxes to go up to fund the vets just like they don't want taxes to go up to fund people they feel are "unworthy". Just another example of our national "Christian" values. That's why "support the troops" is just marketing to make everyone feel better about young kids dying. If everyone "supported" the troops there wouldn't be any VA issues. BTW- we are one week away from 32 million people losing their healthcare, women being denigrated yet again, and pre-existing conditions fucking you for the rest of your lives. Thank God the meek will walk into the kingdom of heaven because the GOP Christians are making it easier to get there. 
    Agree about VA. My college roomie and long time friend, retired a  number of years ago after about 35 years or so as a board certified pediatrician and boar certified family practitioner. Did some volunteer  work with Indian tribes and then was going to do some part time work when the market as slowing.
    Told me he couldn't as he received a 100% disability from army. He had diabetes and was discovered to have leukemia (agent orange). I asked how much trouble he had with VA re leukemia being related (I remember all the crap we were hearing for years that Agent Orange only kills plants). He said he only had to tell them where he was stationed (Cambodian border) and they approve.
    He receives his treatment (and has for a number of years) from the VA and is quite pleased.


    As an aside, I feel that the number of organizations and funds "to support the vets"-(wounded warriors, etc) is an absolute disgrace. And not just because so many of them pay a very high percentage of what they collect in "administration costs and salaries).
    There should NEVER be the need for ANY organization or funds to assist the vets. IT SHOULD BE UNQUESTIONED THAT THE GOVERNMENT TAKE CARE OF ANY AND ALL VET PROBLEMS. That any of those would be needed is shameful! 
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    alohafri
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by alohafri on Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:43 am

    frank bonifacic wrote:


    As an aside, I feel that the number of organizations and funds "to support the vets"-(wounded warriors, etc) is an absolute disgrace. And not just because so many of them pay a very high percentage of what they collect in "administration costs and salaries).
    There should NEVER be the need for ANY organization or funds to assist the vets. IT SHOULD BE UNQUESTIONED THAT THE GOVERNMENT TAKE CARE OF ANY AND ALL VET PROBLEMS. That any of those would be needed is shameful! 

    Agreed! I hope I don't sound like I'm badmouthing the VA. One of my best friend's wife is a nurse at Hines and a bartender friend of mine has her full time job as an administrator at Hines (she was helpful to me when my dad was dying last year). The VA was better for my dad in arranging his funeral than Medicare was in his nursing home care.

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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by frank bonifacic on Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:58 am

    alohafri wrote:
    frank bonifacic wrote:


    As an aside, I feel that the number of organizations and funds "to support the vets"-(wounded warriors, etc) is an absolute disgrace. And not just because so many of them pay a very high percentage of what they collect in "administration costs and salaries).
    There should NEVER be the need for ANY organization or funds to assist the vets. IT SHOULD BE UNQUESTIONED THAT THE GOVERNMENT TAKE CARE OF ANY AND ALL VET PROBLEMS. That any of those would be needed is shameful! 

    Agreed! I hope I don't sound like I'm badmouthing the VA. One of my best friend's wife is a nurse at Hines and a bartender friend of mine has her full time job as an administrator at Hines (she was helpful to me when my dad was dying last year). The VA was better for my dad in arranging his funeral than Medicare was in his nursing home care.
    I never thought you were badmouthing it. Interestingly, everybody who has posted has favorable comments about the VA- and the only negative has been that Congress is more interested in other areas to spend our money so they need to get it from somewhere, and frequently it's from the VA budget.
    I venture to guess that if they asked their constituents their opinion, they would be surprised to learn that most Americans are NOT in favor of VA cuts!
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:09 pm

    So I just saw that all fifty state Medicaid directors are against Graham Cassidy.  I believe every known medical association is against it.  All of the insurance companies are against it.  Most of the governors, including GOP governors, are against it.  About 85% of the American public is against it.  I suppose this means it'll pass, right?

    Simple question...for all of the years of the GOP claiming Obamacare is a travesty and harmful, why don't they just flat out repeal it down to the roots?  If it's terrible, why not end it?  Why don't they just admit it's BETTER THAN WHAT WE HAD, OR ELSE THEY'D JUST REPEAL IT?  It's because they know it's better than what we used to have.  They'll just not ever admit that.

    This is happening because rich donors are demanding it.  Rich donors want the law repealed so they can have their taxes cut.  GOP donation money is way down in the past six months, and behind the scenes folks are claiming donors have turned off the faucet with the demand to repeal and replace.
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    blondy28
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by blondy28 on Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:32 pm

    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:

    Well, you didn't call me a clueless cunt or cocksucking shmuck from St. Chuck, so we're off to a good start.  And for the record, if I'm going to hit on you I'll go directly to your Grindr profile page and swipe right.

    WTF is a "Grindr"?

    Tinder for gay folks.

    Which leads to my next question. What's a "Tinder"? LOL

    Tinder is what my daughter uses to shame guys who use poor grammar.
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    sharpy
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by sharpy on Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:00 pm

    here should NEVER be the need for ANY organization or funds to assist the vets. IT SHOULD BE UNQUESTIONED THAT THE GOVERNMENT TAKE CARE OF ANY AND ALL VET PROBLEMS. That any of those would be needed is shameful! 


    Absolutely correct Frank. I get aggravated with the "Support the Troops" lip service when all it might be is applauding some soldier at a ballgame. I think if you put yourself in harms way for this country, the country owes you. 
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    blondy28
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by blondy28 on Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:20 pm

    sharpy wrote:here should NEVER be the need for ANY organization or funds to assist the vets. IT SHOULD BE UNQUESTIONED THAT THE GOVERNMENT TAKE CARE OF ANY AND ALL VET PROBLEMS. That any of those would be needed is shameful! 


    Absolutely correct Frank. I get aggravated with the "Support the Troops" lip service when all it might be is applauding some soldier at a ballgame. I think if you put yourself in harms way for this country, the country owes you. 

    It seems that the disconnect is that the conservatives consider themselves pro-troops because they don't oppose the wars.  Somehow they think because they are gung ho for war, that translates to being supportive of the troops.  On the contrary...I think if we err on the side of not frivolously sending these brave men and women to their deaths, we are far more supportive of the troops.  Because, as you say, from a policy perspective, the right does very little to support the troops.
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    cream919
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by cream919 on Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:10 pm

    I've always been amused by the phony balony patriotism involved with "Support Out Troops" and all this "thank you for your service" bullshit from people whose "support" is fine until it comes down to putting your money where your mouth is.
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    blondy28
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by blondy28 on Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:02 am

    I see Trump is planning on signing an executive order for Health Care.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:27 am

    blondy28 wrote:I see Trump is planning on signing an executive order for Health Care.

    LOL.  I heard him saying something about that, too.  If there's a way for him to ruin something with Obama's name on it, he's gonna try doing it.  Maybe he'll just issue an executive order declaring ACA against the law or something, and then we can watch the entire GOP suddenly begin defending the honor of executive orders.  He's already doing everything in his power to put ACA into a death spiral with dumping the mandate and no longer using their ad budget to get people (healthy people!) to sign up.

    While I'm on this topic, do we even know what the GOP stands for anymore?  Absolute nutcase crackpot Judge Roy Moore (gay behavior ought to be illegal, Muslims shouldn't be allowed to run for office, evolution is a hoax) is going to win a senate seat in Alabama in a couple of months.  The new tax plan proposal is being rated by an independent agency as RAISING taxes on the middle class and dramatically lowering them on the rich, while blowing a HUGE hole in the deficit.  For eight years, I heard nothing but complaining about the deficits and the debt under Obama.  Now, it's a non-issue, even though Trump and the GOP are trying to grow the deficit with these cuts and growing the military.  The only thing I view the GOP as being steadfast on is being anti-abortion.  Nothing else appears sacred.  They are their own worst enemies.  

    With where I think our demographics are going over the next ten years, I believe this administration is possibly the last gasp of the selfish, dickish monster of the Reaganomics/Trickle Down era.  This election of nutjob Trump seems to me like it's the monster getting up at the end of the movie and making one last stand before being pushed over the cliff.  Trump lies, insults, boasts, cheats...and his base of 38% love him for it.  It can't possibly keep up this way.  It just can't.  The younger generation hates this dick, and the folks that support him.  It might get violent for a while (as Cream and Sharpy sometimes imply), but I honestly think this is a part of the larger equation of becoming a much nicer place.

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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by frank bonifacic on Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:13 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:I see Trump is planning on signing an executive order for Health Care.

    LOL.  I heard him saying something about that, too.  If there's a way for him to ruin something with Obama's name on it, he's gonna try doing it.  Maybe he'll just issue an executive order declaring ACA against the law or something, and then we can watch the entire GOP suddenly begin defending the honor of executive orders.  He's already doing everything in his power to put ACA into a death spiral with dumping the mandate and no longer using their ad budget to get people (healthy people!) to sign up.

    as an aside, HHS just cancelled their 4-5 visits to Mississippi where they have met with the Medicaid people and have forums on enrolling for health care, etc.  When Mississippi head asked for resumes of attendees so could republish received note saying trips cancelled (couple days before) Just trying to show it is failing (lol)


    While I'm on this topic, do we even know what the GOP stands for anymore?  Absolute nutcase crackpot Judge Roy Moore (gay behavior ought to be illegal, Muslims shouldn't be allowed to run for office, evolution is a hoax) is going to win a senate seat in Alabama in a couple of months.  The new tax plan proposal is being rated by an independent agency as RAISING taxes on the middle class and dramatically lowering them on the rich, while blowing a HUGE hole in the deficit.  For eight years, I heard nothing but complaining about the deficits and the debt under Obama.  Now, it's a non-issue, even though Trump and the GOP are trying to grow the deficit with these cuts and growing the military.  The only thing I view the GOP as being steadfast on is being anti-abortion.  Nothing else appears sacred.  They are their own worst enemies.  

    With where I think our demographics are going over the next ten years, I believe this administration is possibly the last gasp of the selfish, dickish monster of the Reaganomics/Trickle Down era.  This election of nutjob Trump seems to me like it's the monster getting up at the end of the movie and making one last stand before being pushed over the cliff.  Trump lies, insults, boasts, cheats...and his base of 38% love him for it.  It can't possibly keep up this way.  It just can't.  The younger generation hates this dick, and the folks that support him.  It might get violent for a while (as Cream and Sharpy sometimes imply), but I honestly think this is a part of the larger equation of becoming a much nicer place.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:04 am

    frank bonifacic wrote:

    as an aside, HHS just cancelled their 4-5 visits to Mississippi where they have met with the Medicaid people and have forums on enrolling for health care, etc.  When Mississippi head asked for resumes of attendees so could republish received note saying trips cancelled (couple days before) Just trying to show it is failing (lol)


    They flat out will not rest until they do whatever it takes to kill ACA, so that they can say it failed.  They are so sure it's awful, yet it's clearly not awful enough to just repeal it, so let's tank it so we can say it's terrible.  Based on the rising approval ratings of ACA in the past six months, it seems that more people are beginning to see through this bullshit.  They are scared shitless that ACA will become commonplace, and become accepted, and be clearly seen to be helping people.  Because when that happens, Americans will know that the fucking liberals actually helped them.

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