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    Single Payer Push

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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:22 am

    With Sanders coming out with a single payer bill, and about 1/3 of the Dem senators backing him, it seems to me like there's a bit of a growing groundswell for this coming from the liberal community right now.  My take is that they get the sense that America's youth and millennial generation strongly support this, along with about 35-45% support from our middle-aged generation, and they figure the timing is right.  It might cost them some support and votes in the short term, but they probably see this as a long term play (i.e. lose some battles and win the war).  These things seem to always end up going the Progressives' way sooner or later, so perhaps they're viewing this as a continuation of their social progress arc.  

    I didn't put this here to celebrate or suggest strong support from me on it.  Just for discussion.  For the record, I support it, but I'm nervous as to whether the timing is yet right for this push.  I find it interesting that the strongest opponents of single payer will be folks who are already getting it or will soon be getting it via Medicare.
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    blondy28
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by blondy28 on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:40 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:With Sanders coming out with a single payer bill, and about 1/3 of the Dem senators backing him, it seems to me like there's a bit of a growing groundswell for this coming from the liberal community right now.  My take is that they get the sense that America's youth and millennial generation strongly support this, along with about 35-45% support from our middle-aged generation, and they figure the timing is right.  It might cost them some support and votes in the short term, but they probably see this as a long term play (i.e. lose some battles and win the war).  These things seem to always end up going the Progressives' way sooner or later, so perhaps they're viewing this as a continuation of their social progress arc.  

    I didn't put this here to celebrate or suggest strong support from me on it.  Just for discussion.  For the record, I support it, but I'm nervous as to whether the timing is yet right for this push.  I find it interesting that the strongest opponents of single payer will be folks who are already getting it or will soon be getting it via Medicare.

    Didn't Trump come out for single payer in one of his rallies or in an interview during the primary season?  I mean, he didn't stick with it, and maybe he was just trying to set himself apart from the rest of his GOP opponents, but seems I heard him say that.
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by sharpy on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:55 pm

    Not confident single payer gets thru a GOP government.  Single payer will get thru the GOP once insurance company no longer. An make a profit, i.e. Premiums are so high they aren't affordable, or payouts are just too high to sustain a profit. 
    Actually, if the masses could organize, the quickest way to single payer is for everyone to cancel their insurance and just show up in the ED. When nobody pays for insurance and no hospital or doctor is getting reimbursed, guess who will lead the charge for single payer. Besides, Medicare is administered thru insurance companies. They are the middle man between the pt and the government. So they will have a job either way. 
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:42 am

    We won't have repub majorities forever. Strikes me that they are greasing the axle for when Dems have another majority.
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by alohafri on Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:20 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:With Sanders coming out with a single payer bill, and about 1/3 of the Dem senators backing him, it seems to me like there's a bit of a growing groundswell for this coming from the liberal community right now.  My take is that they get the sense that America's youth and millennial generation strongly support this, along with about 35-45% support from our middle-aged generation, and they figure the timing is right.  It might cost them some support and votes in the short term, but they probably see this as a long term play (i.e. lose some battles and win the war).  These things seem to always end up going the Progressives' way sooner or later, so perhaps they're viewing this as a continuation of their social progress arc.  

    I didn't put this here to celebrate or suggest strong support from me on it.  Just for discussion.  For the record, I support it, but I'm nervous as to whether the timing is yet right for this push.  I find it interesting that the strongest opponents of single payer will be folks who are already getting it or will soon be getting it via Medicare.

    On WBBM they said that there is no plan in place to pay for it. All Sanders said was it will be paid for in a "progressive" way. Does that mean he and Warren are going to each write one big check?
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:24 am

    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:With Sanders coming out with a single payer bill, and about 1/3 of the Dem senators backing him, it seems to me like there's a bit of a growing groundswell for this coming from the liberal community right now.  My take is that they get the sense that America's youth and millennial generation strongly support this, along with about 35-45% support from our middle-aged generation, and they figure the timing is right.  It might cost them some support and votes in the short term, but they probably see this as a long term play (i.e. lose some battles and win the war).  These things seem to always end up going the Progressives' way sooner or later, so perhaps they're viewing this as a continuation of their social progress arc.  

    I didn't put this here to celebrate or suggest strong support from me on it.  Just for discussion.  For the record, I support it, but I'm nervous as to whether the timing is yet right for this push.  I find it interesting that the strongest opponents of single payer will be folks who are already getting it or will soon be getting it via Medicare.

    On WBBM they said that there is no plan in place to pay for it. All Sanders said was it will be paid for in a "progressive" way. Does that mean he and Warren are going to each write one big check?

    Well of course there's no plan in place to pay for it.  The new way to campaign, Kevin, is to just promise shit.  Single payer.  Free college.  Build a wall and have Mexico pay for it.  MASSIVE tax cuts.  

    In the end, when Single Payer finally becomes a real thing, we'll find a way to redirect the money we currently spend on health costs (18% of our GDP) into paying for single payer.  And single payer will be cheaper than 18% of GDP.  It might mean a significant tax increase, but with a corresponding savings in that we'll no longer be paying privately for health care costs such as copays, deductibles, and premiums for coverage.  In the end, with the profit motive of the insurance companies removed from the formula, it should be less money out of pocket for all of us.  Not sure it'll happen anytime in the next 5-10 yrs, but it'll eventually happen.  We're moving in that direction and the younger generations will inevitably lead us there.
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:13 am

    I'm actually more interested in folks' thoughts as to whether this is Dem political suicide or not.  Not sure it is, but it might have some shorter term consequences.
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by sharpy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:03 pm

    Right now everyone pays "Medicare tax" for the first few months of the year and then you don't, and you're net pay then goes up. Plus, most people pay monthly for insurance, so direct that money into the tax pool and you have a collection of money. So if ur Medicare tax is $50 x 3 months, and ur instance is $100 bucks per month, you can divide that $1350 over a year and make it your health tax per month (thus is a very rough estimate and would likely be higher based on your circumstances and possibly income). If everyone does this, you can pay for it. Everyone should have to pay, so if you're on the dole, that dole is reduced as you have to contribute to healthcare. 
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:26 pm

    sharpy wrote:Right now everyone pays "Medicare tax" for the first few months of the year and then you don't, and you're net pay then goes up. Plus, most people pay monthly for insurance, so direct that money into the tax pool and you have a collection of money. So if ur Medicare tax is $50 x 3 months, and ur instance is $100 bucks per month, you can divide that $1350 over a year and make it your health tax per month (thus is a very rough estimate and would likely be higher based on your circumstances and possibly income). If everyone does this, you can pay for it. Everyone should have to pay, so if you're on the dole, that dole is reduced as you have to contribute to healthcare. 

    Not to mention the $18,000 a year that Verizon pays to BC/BS for our family insurance plan.  I'm sure some kind of method by which to redirect THAT money into the pool would really make a serious dent in the costs.  I think we pay about 5k a year on top of Verizon paying the 18k for our coverage.  Add to that the $1,000 or so that we come out of pocket and you have $24k (or round down to 20k) from our household and our employer on our household's behalf.  Honestly, for this to work, employers that pay for our coverage will need to either redirect that money into the pot to pay for universal coverage, or redirect that money to the employee, so that the employee can pay an additional healthcare tax with that money.  that's how you pay for it.  Overall, seeing as how we're at 18% GDP for health costs, if we can lower it to 16% of GDP...a very achievable figure, then we put more money in the pockets of Americans WHILE providing universal coverage.
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by blondy28 on Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:48 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:With Sanders coming out with a single payer bill, and about 1/3 of the Dem senators backing him, it seems to me like there's a bit of a growing groundswell for this coming from the liberal community right now.  My take is that they get the sense that America's youth and millennial generation strongly support this, along with about 35-45% support from our middle-aged generation, and they figure the timing is right.  It might cost them some support and votes in the short term, but they probably see this as a long term play (i.e. lose some battles and win the war).  These things seem to always end up going the Progressives' way sooner or later, so perhaps they're viewing this as a continuation of their social progress arc.  

    I didn't put this here to celebrate or suggest strong support from me on it.  Just for discussion.  For the record, I support it, but I'm nervous as to whether the timing is yet right for this push.  I find it interesting that the strongest opponents of single payer will be folks who are already getting it or will soon be getting it via Medicare.

    On WBBM they said that there is no plan in place to pay for it. All Sanders said was it will be paid for in a "progressive" way. Does that mean he and Warren are going to each write one big check?

    Well of course there's no plan in place to pay for it.  The new way to campaign, Kevin, is to just promise shit.  Single payer.  Free college.  Build a wall and have Mexico pay for it.  MASSIVE tax cuts.  

    In the end, when Single Payer finally becomes a real thing, we'll find a way to redirect the money we currently spend on health costs (18% of our GDP) into paying for single payer.  And single payer will be cheaper than 18% of GDP.  It might mean a significant tax increase, but with a corresponding savings in that we'll no longer be paying privately for health care costs such as copays, deductibles, and premiums for coverage.  In the end, with the profit motive of the insurance companies removed from the formula, it should be less money out of pocket for all of us.  Not sure it'll happen anytime in the next 5-10 yrs, but it'll eventually happen.  We're moving in that direction and the younger generations will inevitably lead us there.

    This is the thing that I always find baffling.  Why do people think that anything that requires a profit would be cheaper?  How did that work out when Chicago sold the parking meters to a private company?  Or Taste of Chicago?
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by alohafri on Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:34 pm

    Interesting column by Steve Chapman who seems to disagree with you Rob.
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:46 pm

    His column was fairly vague, mostly just stating that Sanders is full of shit and citing vague platitudes about spiraling costs.  Much of what Chapman states is on point and fair.  Sanders is probably not going to see this getting done anytime soon.  However, it is the direction we're going.  Pointing out that Medicare is on track to go bankrupt in 10 or 20 yrs is not a realistic point to make because we'll ultimately decide we need it and we'll figure out how to extend it another 20 or 50 or 100 years.  That might mean a higher tax, or a shuffling of how we pay for it, or a few other adjustments.  Instead of mentioning that, he just says it'll require a higher tax and Americans won't like that.  Well, duh.  

    Sure, we won't like it, but we'll figure it out.  Medicare in its own right will either be additionally funded, or fine tuned, or one or two of many other options will be tried.  Our golden ages are lasting longer.  We have the best standard of living in the world here in the US (or damn close to it), so we have room to pay more taxes for Medicare if that's what it takes.  Either that, or we actually HAVE death panels to thin the heard!

    He doesn't really address some of the points I made earlier in this thread.  We pay approximately double in this country for healthcare over the rest of the developed countries in the world, and that's with 10-20% of our people not covered.  Chapman doesn't exactly come out and state that it can't be done.  The money we're currently spending on healthcare in this country (18% of GDP) could easily pay for nat'l healthcare if we could figure out how to redirect it from where it's going now, and into a fund for a single payer system. PLUS, since Medicare is paid for through other taxes and probably accounts for at least 25% of current medical costs in this country, we really need to find a way to pay for a system that's more like 13-14% of GDP, since Medicare is self-funded.  I've not seen anyone address THIS point, and state how or why it couldn't be done.  Chapman didn't really even touch on it.
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by sharpy on Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:39 am

    Latest physician poll: 
    Single payer 67% prefer
    Obamacare: 63% prefer
    Trumpcare: 23% prefer


    Significant increase in numbers who prefer single payer. 
    Not sure it means anything since the physicians in the cabinet are in the minority, but single payer won't fly unless medical and hospital organizations buy into it
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:49 am

    67% is a big number, and it's growing daily. Just read that even in West Virginia, it's over 50% now. Of course, that won't stop them from voting for folks that want to take their coverage away.
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by Nomads44 on Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:41 pm

    In single payer, who prioritizes authorization of a surgery.  Do types of surgery get priority?  Does cancer treatment get preference over what might be an elective surgery?  Does elective surgeries in effect go out the window?  Someone is recommended for knee replacement surgery... who does he get behind?  A line, or can he butt to the front depending on his job or the emergency level, i.e., patient cannot walk vs. can get around with a limp vs. horrible pain, but is not noticeable in his gait?

    All of this stuff is over my head.  Will the influential folks, politicians, well to do, famous, sports notorieties get preferential treatment?

    How to prevent abuse?  How to determine who is abusing?  Do the unemployed get preferential treatment so they can join the workforce?  Or do people not working get low priority?  If no priority, then we all go to the back of the line no matter who we are, and the ones needing help the most surely perish during their wait.

    Without knowing the answers to many of these questions, I cannot be for or against it.

    P.S.  For those of you that thought (or maybe hoped) I was gone, I could not figure out how to delete myself from the group, nor could our Administrator.  If one of you knows how and wishes to do so, please do.


    Last edited by Nomads44 on Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:48 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added P.S.)
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by alohafri on Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:12 pm

    Nomads44 wrote:In single payer, who prioritizes authorization of a surgery.  Do types of surgery get priority?  Does cancer treatment get preference over what might be an elective surgery?  Does elective surgeries in effect go out the window?  Someone is recommended for knee replacement surgery... who does he get behind?  A line, or can he butt to the front depending on his job or the emergency level, i.e., patient cannot walk vs. can get around with a limp vs. horrible pain, but is not noticeable in his gait?

    All of this stuff is over my head.  Will the influential folks, politicians, well to do, famous, sports notorieties get preferential treatment?

    How to prevent abuse?  How to determine who is abusing?  Do the unemployed get preferential treatment so they can join the workforce?  Or do people not working get low priority?  If no priority, then we all go to the back of the line no matter who we are, and the ones needing help the most surely perish during their wait.

    Without knowing the answers to many of these questions, I cannot be for or against it.

    P.S.  For those of you that thought (or maybe hoped) I was gone, I could not figure out how to delete myself from the group, nor could our Administrator.  If one of you knows how and wishes to do so, please do.

    No one hopes you are gone Jim. If we did, we would have left you with Kark in the other place. Smile
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by alohafri on Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:14 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:67% is a big number, and it's growing daily.  Just read that even in West Virginia, it's over 50% now.  Of course, that won't stop them from voting for folks that want to take their coverage away.

    Those polls don't tell the whole story. I read another poll today (I think in the Quad Cities Times, but don't quote me on that) where those numbers drop dramatically when people take into account an increase in taxes.
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by alohafri on Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:17 pm

    sharpy wrote:but single payer won't fly unless medical and hospital organizations buy into it

    I'm trying to convince my district administration that "standards based grading" won't fly unless colleges buy into it. But they ain't listening.
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by sharpy on Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:36 pm

    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:67% is a big number, and it's growing daily.  Just read that even in West Virginia, it's over 50% now.  Of course, that won't stop them from voting for folks that want to take their coverage away.

    Those polls don't tell the whole story. I read another poll today (I think in the Quad Cities Times, but don't quote me on that) where those numbers drop dramatically when people take into account an increase in taxes.

    That was a poll of physicians- not the general populace. Sorry if I wasn't clear. This is the doctors preference. 
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:50 pm

    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:67% is a big number, and it's growing daily.  Just read that even in West Virginia, it's over 50% now.  Of course, that won't stop them from voting for folks that want to take their coverage away.

    Those polls don't tell the whole story. I read another poll today (I think in the Quad Cities Times, but don't quote me on that) where those numbers drop dramatically when people take into account an increase in taxes.

    You read correctly.  And then those numbers go back up when those same people are informed that the amount we'd need to increase taxes is less than the amount we already pay now, and would no longer have to pay on the private side.  i.e. tax increase is less than private cost savings.  Eventually, the masses will be made to understand this through all of the noise.  Plain and simple, it'll cost Americans less money to do single payer than to do private coverage.  It's why we have Medicare...because it's less out of pocket for users overall than if old folks had to privately insure.  If folks are ok with Medicare when they are 65, why are they against it when they are 60, or 55 or 50?  Why can't it be cheaper and more efficient at any age if it's cheaper and more efficient for the elderly?  Most nations do single payer for between 9-12% of their GDP.  We are at 18% of GDP for our medical costs.  Why couldn't we possibly drop that to 14-16% of GDP under single payer?  And if we did, then Americans have more money in their pockets akin to a huge cuts in taxes, rather than an increase.


    Last edited by SoxIlliniRob on Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:56 pm

    Nomads44 wrote:In single payer, who prioritizes authorization of a surgery.  Do types of surgery get priority?  Does cancer treatment get preference over what might be an elective surgery?  Does elective surgeries in effect go out the window?  Someone is recommended for knee replacement surgery... who does he get behind?  A line, or can he butt to the front depending on his job or the emergency level, i.e., patient cannot walk vs. can get around with a limp vs. horrible pain, but is not noticeable in his gait?

    All of this stuff is over my head.  Will the influential folks, politicians, well to do, famous, sports notorieties get preferential treatment?

    How to prevent abuse?  How to determine who is abusing?  Do the unemployed get preferential treatment so they can join the workforce?  Or do people not working get low priority?  If no priority, then we all go to the back of the line no matter who we are, and the ones needing help the most surely perish during their wait.

    Without knowing the answers to many of these questions, I cannot be for or against it.

    P.S.  For those of you that thought (or maybe hoped) I was gone, I could not figure out how to delete myself from the group, nor could our Administrator.  If one of you knows how and wishes to do so, please do.

    Jim, I believe you're on Medicare if my memory serves correctly regarding your age.  You might be able to answer many of these questions better than most of us.  Medicare is single payer.  How is it treating you?  I am my mom's Power of Attorney because she has some fairly advanced dementia and lives in an assisted living home.  I've been handling her affairs for maybe three years now.  I can say with certainty that her medical and mental welfare are VERY well cared for by Medicare and Medicaid.  Medicare is basically single payer for older folks.  This discussion is only about allowing the rest of the country the same care.

    When my mother needs some kind of care, physical or mental, it's there for her.  No waits.  No questions.
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by alohafri on Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:58 am

    sharpy wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:67% is a big number, and it's growing daily.  Just read that even in West Virginia, it's over 50% now.  Of course, that won't stop them from voting for folks that want to take their coverage away.

    Those polls don't tell the whole story. I read another poll today (I think in the Quad Cities Times, but don't quote me on that) where those numbers drop dramatically when people take into account an increase in taxes.

    That was a poll of physicians- not the general populace. Sorry if I wasn't clear. This is the doctors preference. 

    I was referring to Rob's poll, not yours. I would expect different results depending on who is being asked. 
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:39 am

    I guess I just find myself perplexed on this topic sometimes.  I hear a guy like Nomads sounding unsure about single payer, even though HE IS ON SINGLE PAYER (not picking on you, Jim...just using you as a generic example to make a point).  I hear folks on this board or other boards who are vehemently against single payer (sometimes for fair reasons!) but they aren't at all against Medicare, which they'll be on in 5, 10, or 15 yrs.  Kark is renowned for giving his thousand reasons why single payer cannot and will not work, even though Medicare actually WORKS.  My father in law, a hard conservative who is on Medicare, rants endlessly about how terrible single payer would be even though he absolutely LOVES his single payer, gov't coverage.  

    Even a few days ago, Aloha and I were having a brief texting (Kevin, I hope you don't mind my sharing this) exchange about Facebook and single payer and I mentioned to him that whether we like it or not, I believe that the pressure will become very strong over the next 10-15 yrs for it, and that we'll probably not be able to stop it from happening by around 2030 or 2035 or so at the latest.  His response was that he'll be on Medicare by then anyway, so it's fine with him.  He clearly meant this in a bit of a kidding way, but I hear it the same way all the time from folks who say this seriously.  In Kevin's case, I consider him a conservative and a Repub so I assume he is against single payer, and I'm perplexed when a text exchange about single payer ends with him saying "No biggie if we make the switch to single payer, because by then I'll be on single payer anyway."   Kevin, you know I love ya.  I'm not trying to pick on you.  I'm just using your text as an example of something I hear a LOT and something that baffles the shit out of me when I hear it.  Folks that are mildly or strongly against single payer seem eager to go on single payer when they are 65.  Why are they so eager or at least willing to receive a benefit they so strongly reject.  Is there something magical about doing it after the age of 65?  I mean, if we could go on Medicare at age 60 by just paying a premium to the gov't instead of to the insurance companies, wouldn't many folks do it?  What about 55 yrs old?  Or 50?  In the end what's the difference between paying a premium for it, or instead paying a higher tax which serves as a premium?  Why are we ok with Single Payer for folks 65 and old, but against it for folks under 65?  Why can't it work for all ages?

    Kevin, I hope you don't feel like I'm bringing this up to pick on you or embarrass you.  Your response is what I hear from 100% of the people that discuss this topic with me.  You're in the norm.  It just throws me off when I hear it.  I shake my head in and am perplexed by it, even though it's the norm.
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by alohafri on Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:42 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:I guess I just find myself perplexed on this topic sometimes.  I hear a guy like Nomads sounding unsure about single payer, even though HE IS ON SINGLE PAYER (not picking on you, Jim...just using you as a generic example to make a point).  I hear folks on this board or other boards who are vehemently against single payer (sometimes for fair reasons!) but they aren't at all against Medicare, which they'll be on in 5, 10, or 15 yrs.  Kark is renowned for giving his thousand reasons why single payer cannot and will not work, even though Medicare actually WORKS.  My father in law, a hard conservative who is on Medicare, rants endlessly about how terrible single payer would be even though he absolutely LOVES his single payer, gov't coverage.  

    Even a few days ago, Aloha and I were having a brief texting (Kevin, I hope you don't mind my sharing this) exchange about Facebook and single payer and I mentioned to him that whether we like it or not, I believe that the pressure will become very strong over the next 10-15 yrs for it, and that we'll probably not be able to stop it from happening by around 2030 or 2035 or so at the latest.  His response was that he'll be on Medicare by then anyway, so it's fine with him.  He clearly meant this in a bit of a kidding way, but I hear it the same way all the time from folks who say this seriously.  In Kevin's case, I consider him a conservative and a Repub so I assume he is against single payer, and I'm perplexed when a text exchange about single payer ends with him saying "No biggie if we make the switch to single payer, because by then I'll be on single payer anyway."   Kevin, you know I love ya.  I'm not trying to pick on you.  I'm just using your text as an example of something I hear a LOT and something that baffles the shit out of me when I hear it.  Folks that are mildly or strongly against single payer seem eager to go on single payer when they are 65.  Why are they so eager or at least willing to receive a benefit they so strongly reject.  Is there something magical about doing it after the age of 65?  I mean, if we could go on Medicare at age 60 by just paying a premium to the gov't instead of to the insurance companies, wouldn't many folks do it?  What about 55 yrs old?  Or 50?  In the end what's the difference between paying a premium for it, or instead paying a higher tax which serves as a premium?  Why are we ok with Single Payer for folks 65 and old, but against it for folks under 65?  Why can't it work for all ages?

    Kevin, I hope you don't feel like I'm bringing this up to pick on you or embarrass you.  Your response is what I hear from 100% of the people that discuss this topic with me.  You're in the norm.  It just throws me off when I hear it.  I shake my head in and am perplexed by it, even though it's the norm.

    Conservative compared to you. Moderate if you listen to Kark, a certain person I live with, and the talking heads at Fox.


    I don't mind you bringing it up. It's not like you were hitting on me or anything...or worse, I was going along with it (not that there's anything wrong with that).


    I'm happy with the insurance I have. I would not give it up in favor of a single-payer. I fear I'd lose too much. I also get the option of remaining on my insurance after I retire (which I will do). You have the option of giving up your insurance through Verizon. If you feel that strongly about it, why don't you do it? And I don't bring that up to challenge or embarrass you, I'm also curious.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Single Payer Push

    Post by alohafri on Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:43 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:I guess I just find myself perplexed on this topic sometimes.  I hear a guy like Nomads sounding unsure about single payer, even though HE IS ON SINGLE PAYER (not picking on you, Jim...just using you as a generic example to make a point).  I hear folks on this board or other boards who are vehemently against single payer (sometimes for fair reasons!) but they aren't at all against Medicare, which they'll be on in 5, 10, or 15 yrs.  Kark is renowned for giving his thousand reasons why single payer cannot and will not work, even though Medicare actually WORKS.  My father in law, a hard conservative who is on Medicare, rants endlessly about how terrible single payer would be even though he absolutely LOVES his single payer, gov't coverage.  

    Even a few days ago, Aloha and I were having a brief texting (Kevin, I hope you don't mind my sharing this) exchange about Facebook and single payer and I mentioned to him that whether we like it or not, I believe that the pressure will become very strong over the next 10-15 yrs for it, and that we'll probably not be able to stop it from happening by around 2030 or 2035 or so at the latest.  His response was that he'll be on Medicare by then anyway, so it's fine with him.  He clearly meant this in a bit of a kidding way, but I hear it the same way all the time from folks who say this seriously.  In Kevin's case, I consider him a conservative and a Repub so I assume he is against single payer, and I'm perplexed when a text exchange about single payer ends with him saying "No biggie if we make the switch to single payer, because by then I'll be on single payer anyway."   Kevin, you know I love ya.  I'm not trying to pick on you.  I'm just using your text as an example of something I hear a LOT and something that baffles the shit out of me when I hear it.  Folks that are mildly or strongly against single payer seem eager to go on single payer when they are 65.  Why are they so eager or at least willing to receive a benefit they so strongly reject.  Is there something magical about doing it after the age of 65?  I mean, if we could go on Medicare at age 60 by just paying a premium to the gov't instead of to the insurance companies, wouldn't many folks do it?  What about 55 yrs old?  Or 50?  In the end what's the difference between paying a premium for it, or instead paying a higher tax which serves as a premium?  Why are we ok with Single Payer for folks 65 and old, but against it for folks under 65?  Why can't it work for all ages?

    Kevin, I hope you don't feel like I'm bringing this up to pick on you or embarrass you.  Your response is what I hear from 100% of the people that discuss this topic with me.  You're in the norm.  It just throws me off when I hear it.  I shake my head in and am perplexed by it, even though it's the norm.

    I do have to laugh at the goofs who hold up signs saying "Government, keep your hands off my Medicare."

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    Re: Single Payer Push

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