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    cream919
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    The dirty word...

    Post by cream919 on Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:52 pm

    Liberalism!! So I get this political mailing yesterday breathlessly urging me to support our beloved president by voting republican across the board. And why? To stop the "liberal" agenda of course. The great scourge of our country...LIBERALISM!!!!! Of course it goes without saying that the faces on the front of this mailing were Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer!! The usual suspects.

    Nothing really new here...we've seen this all before in mailings, television ads, town hall meetings, speeches by Trump and all his cronies...blah, blah, blah. It's been going on for, well, decades. So my question is this...when was the last time you saw a left wing politician use the term "conservatism" disparagingly and portray it as something bad and negative in their advertising, speeches...any fucking thing!!!??? 

    Yeah...that's what I thought.

    No wonder the right has the left flinching like a bunch of snowflakes and candy-asses.
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    alohafri
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by alohafri on Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:46 am

    cream919 wrote:Liberalism!! So I get this political mailing yesterday breathlessly urging me to support our beloved president by voting republican across the board. And why? To stop the "liberal" agenda of course. The great scourge of our country...LIBERALISM!!!!! Of course it goes without saying that the faces on the front of this mailing were Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer!! The usual suspects.

    Nothing really new here...we've seen this all before in mailings, television ads, town hall meetings, speeches by Trump and all his cronies...blah, blah, blah. It's been going on for, well, decades. So my question is this...when was the last time you saw a left wing politician use the term "conservatism" disparagingly and portray it as something bad and negative in their advertising, speeches...any fucking thing!!!??? 

    Yeah...that's what I thought.

    No wonder the right has the left flinching like a bunch of snowflakes and candy-asses.

    This must be a new tactic for political mailings. As a registered Republican, I'd never get mailings from Democratic candidates, until this year. I'm guessing you are in the opposite camp, a registered Democrat getting mailings from the Republicans?
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    blondy28
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by blondy28 on Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:44 am

    cream919 wrote:Liberalism!! So I get this political mailing yesterday breathlessly urging me to support our beloved president by voting republican across the board. And why? To stop the "liberal" agenda of course. The great scourge of our country...LIBERALISM!!!!! Of course it goes without saying that the faces on the front of this mailing were Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer!! The usual suspects.

    Nothing really new here...we've seen this all before in mailings, television ads, town hall meetings, speeches by Trump and all his cronies...blah, blah, blah. It's been going on for, well, decades. So my question is this...when was the last time you saw a left wing politician use the term "conservatism" disparagingly and portray it as something bad and negative in their advertising, speeches...any fucking thing!!!??? 

    Yeah...that's what I thought.

    No wonder the right has the left flinching like a bunch of snowflakes and candy-asses.

    The Republicans are very good at using language to elicit a response.  I think when you're dealing with low information voters, a few buzzwords is all it takes.  Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, George Soros. In Illinois it's Mike Madigan.  Our douche bag representative, Peter Roskam, has TV ads and print ads comparing his opponent to Mike Madigan, who is the Illinois State House Speaker.  He refers to them both as "shady politicians".  The thing is, Sean Casten, Roskam's opponent, has never run for elected office.  He's a businessman and environment scientist.  And apparently as "shady politician" like Mike Madigan.  Our soon-to-be-one-term governor Bruce Rauner has ads that talk about him being the only one who can stand up to Mike Madigan.  Every politician in the state has an ad referencing Mike Madigan.  It's very lazy, but it works for these low information folks.  Taxes is another one.  They'll lose their mind if our state taxes increase by 1%, but don't blink about college costing $200,000/child.  They seem to have no clue that it's a shell game.  They just need to hear the word "taxes".

    I promise that I think as little about Mitch McConnell as the right feels about Nancy Pelosi, I'm sure the Koch brothers give more to right wing politicians than George Soros does on the left, and "traditional values" or "conservationism" are words/phrases that evoke a very negative response in me, but it would take a lot more that dropping a few of those names/phrases in an ad to sway me.
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by alohafri on Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:33 am

    blondy28 wrote:
    cream919 wrote:Liberalism!! So I get this political mailing yesterday breathlessly urging me to support our beloved president by voting republican across the board. And why? To stop the "liberal" agenda of course. The great scourge of our country...LIBERALISM!!!!! Of course it goes without saying that the faces on the front of this mailing were Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer!! The usual suspects.

    Nothing really new here...we've seen this all before in mailings, television ads, town hall meetings, speeches by Trump and all his cronies...blah, blah, blah. It's been going on for, well, decades. So my question is this...when was the last time you saw a left wing politician use the term "conservatism" disparagingly and portray it as something bad and negative in their advertising, speeches...any fucking thing!!!??? 

    Yeah...that's what I thought.

    No wonder the right has the left flinching like a bunch of snowflakes and candy-asses.

    The Republicans are very good at using language to elicit a response.  I think when you're dealing with low information voters, a few buzzwords is all it takes.  Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, George Soros. In Illinois it's Mike Madigan.  Our douche bag representative, Peter Roskam, has TV ads and print ads comparing his opponent to Mike Madigan, who is the Illinois State House Speaker.  He refers to them both as "shady politicians".  The thing is, Sean Casten, Roskam's opponent, has never run for elected office.  He's a businessman and environment scientist.  And apparently as "shady politician" like Mike Madigan.  Our soon-to-be-one-term governor Bruce Rauner has ads that talk about him being the only one who can stand up to Mike Madigan.  Every politician in the state has an ad referencing Mike Madigan.  It's very lazy, but it works for these low information folks.  Taxes is another one.  They'll lose their mind if our state taxes increase by 1%, but don't blink about college costing $200,000/child.  They seem to have no clue that it's a shell game.  They just need to hear the word "taxes".

    I promise that I think as little about Mitch McConnell as the right feels about Nancy Pelosi, I'm sure the Koch brothers give more to right wing politicians than George Soros does on the left, and "traditional values" or "conservationism" are words/phrases that evoke a very negative response in me, but it would take a lot more that dropping a few of those names/phrases in an ad to sway me.


    My guess is that a lot of those attack ads are not done by the candidates themselves. They are probably done by someone like "Liberty Principles, Inc." or "Kark's Freedom Express." This is thanks to the Supreme Court and their Citizens United decision.

    I will say that the Democrats do the same thing, but it's a bit more under the table. We have someone running for state senate in my district. Her ads used to mention that she is against term limits. Her ads, the exact same ads as before, now no longer include her being against term limits. Did the Madigan Machine get to her and take them out?
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:29 am

    Maybe I don't follow state politics enough, but is there some reason that I'm supposed to be terribly afraid of Madigan?  Granted, the state is in a bit of a financial bind, but is that Madigan's fault or the fault of all of the folks that have held power in this state over the past 30 yrs?  

    Pursuant to Kevin's comments, it appears that the green light for unlimited money in US politics has opened up a lot of really ugly doors.  I remember when Obama warned us this would be the result during one of his SOTU speeches and doofus Alito mouthed "not true."  I guess we know who was right and who was talking out of his rear end.
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by alohafri on Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:04 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Maybe I don't follow state politics enough, but is there some reason that I'm supposed to be terribly afraid of Madigan?  Granted, the state is in a bit of a financial bind, but is that Madigan's fault or the fault of all of the folks that have held power in this state over the past 30 yrs?  

    Pursuant to Kevin's comments, it appears that the green light for unlimited money in US politics has opened up a lot of really ugly doors.  I remember when Obama warned us this would be the result during one of his SOTU speeches and doofus Alito mouthed "not true."  I guess we know who was right and who was talking out of his rear end.

    You should be more worried about state politics. Local and state politics affect you much more closely than national politics. National politics just get more publicity.


    Madigan has pretty much held the power in the state for the past 30 years, so I think you have just answered your own question. I'm against term limits, as I believe they take my rights away as a voter. However, I do think that leadership positions need to have time limits.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:08 am

    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Maybe I don't follow state politics enough, but is there some reason that I'm supposed to be terribly afraid of Madigan?  Granted, the state is in a bit of a financial bind, but is that Madigan's fault or the fault of all of the folks that have held power in this state over the past 30 yrs?  

    Pursuant to Kevin's comments, it appears that the green light for unlimited money in US politics has opened up a lot of really ugly doors.  I remember when Obama warned us this would be the result during one of his SOTU speeches and doofus Alito mouthed "not true."  I guess we know who was right and who was talking out of his rear end.

    You should be more worried about state politics. Local and state politics affect you much more closely than national politics. National politics just get more publicity.


    Madigan has pretty much held the power in the state for the past 30 years, so I think you have just answered your own question. I'm against term limits, as I believe they take my rights away as a voter. However, I do think that leadership positions need to have time limits.

    Madigan holds the power in one chamber.  I've seen a number of both Dem and GOP governors.  It's not like he could do whatever he wanted.  

    On a separate note, Kevin, has the state come up with any kind of pension agreement for you teacher-folk?  I seem to recall that the plan they hatched 6 yrs ago was struck down in a high court.  Is it back in limbo?  If you were retiring right now at the age of 65, would you get what was originally promised?
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by alohafri on Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:00 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Maybe I don't follow state politics enough, but is there some reason that I'm supposed to be terribly afraid of Madigan?  Granted, the state is in a bit of a financial bind, but is that Madigan's fault or the fault of all of the folks that have held power in this state over the past 30 yrs?  

    Pursuant to Kevin's comments, it appears that the green light for unlimited money in US politics has opened up a lot of really ugly doors.  I remember when Obama warned us this would be the result during one of his SOTU speeches and doofus Alito mouthed "not true."  I guess we know who was right and who was talking out of his rear end.

    You should be more worried about state politics. Local and state politics affect you much more closely than national politics. National politics just get more publicity.


    Madigan has pretty much held the power in the state for the past 30 years, so I think you have just answered your own question. I'm against term limits, as I believe they take my rights away as a voter. However, I do think that leadership positions need to have time limits.

    Madigan holds the power in one chamber.  I've seen a number of both Dem and GOP governors.  It's not like he could do whatever he wanted.  

    On a separate note, Kevin, has the state come up with any kind of pension agreement for you teacher-folk?  I seem to recall that the plan they hatched 6 yrs ago was struck down in a high court.  Is it back in limbo?  If you were retiring right now at the age of 65, would you get what was originally promised?

    If you think Madigan truly holds power in one chamber, you have missed the boat. He is the most powerful politician in Illinois. He is what Richard J. Daley used to be. Republican governors knew that if they wanted to get anything done, they had to get him on board. Rauner should be an example of that. He refused to play Madigan's game and we saw how that worked out.


    I'm still in the same position I was in before. Thankfully they haven't been able to change the Illinois constitution yet which could potentially screw me up. But even those who want to mess with the pension system for the most part agree that any changes need to be "moving forward from here" changes. I'm so far down the line that I think I'd be okay.
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:34 pm

    I'm well aware that Madigan is the main guy.  You can't live in Illinois and not know that.  I'm just saying he's not the only guy.  He's the speaker of the House.  He has a lot of pull.  Still, he's one chamber.  There's a senate and a governor.  I don't follow the state enough to know why there is all of the rancor against him, but one can safely assume that when you hear the complaining about the mess Illlinois is in, it's at least a loose indictment of Madigan.  

    Glad to hear you think your situation is in good standing.  I know an awful lot of teachers who chose that career for a number of reasons, but ONE of which was very much based upon the retirement they receive.
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by blondy28 on Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:54 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:I'm well aware that Madigan is the main guy.  You can't live in Illinois and not know that.  I'm just saying he's not the only guy.  He's the speaker of the House.  He has a lot of pull.  Still, he's one chamber.  There's a senate and a governor.  I don't follow the state enough to know why there is all of the rancor against him, but one can safely assume that when you hear the complaining about the mess Illlinois is in, it's at least a loose indictment of Madigan.  

    Glad to hear you think your situation is in good standing.  I know an awful lot of teachers who chose that career for a number of reasons, but ONE of which was very much based upon the retirement they receive.

    Madigan has no more pull than any other long-term politician in any state.  The Republicans have done a good job creating a local boogeyman just as they have national ones.  My current state congressman claims that his opponent had to make a promise to support Madigan.  His snatchy "consultant" said that "it's all true".  I asked if she could show me where the democratic challenger had to make such a promise.  Crickets.
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:04 pm

    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:I'm well aware that Madigan is the main guy.  You can't live in Illinois and not know that.  I'm just saying he's not the only guy.  He's the speaker of the House.  He has a lot of pull.  Still, he's one chamber.  There's a senate and a governor.  I don't follow the state enough to know why there is all of the rancor against him, but one can safely assume that when you hear the complaining about the mess Illlinois is in, it's at least a loose indictment of Madigan.  

    Glad to hear you think your situation is in good standing.  I know an awful lot of teachers who chose that career for a number of reasons, but ONE of which was very much based upon the retirement they receive.

    Madigan has no more pull than any other long-term politician in any state.  The Republicans have done a good job creating a local boogeyman just as they have national ones.  My current state congressman claims that his opponent had to make a promise to support Madigan.  His snatchy "consultant" said that "it's all true".  I asked if she could show me where the democratic challenger had to make such a promise.  Crickets.

    I don't rule out that he has some kind of undue, excessive power that goes above what a normal Speaker might have.  I'm just not sure what kind of pull he has to force the Senate majority leader or the Governor to play along by his rules.  I'd think they could tell him to go fuck off.  Rauner seemed able to do that.  

    I think the word you were looking for above was "cunty" and not snatchy.
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by blondy28 on Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:04 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:I'm well aware that Madigan is the main guy.  You can't live in Illinois and not know that.  I'm just saying he's not the only guy.  He's the speaker of the House.  He has a lot of pull.  Still, he's one chamber.  There's a senate and a governor.  I don't follow the state enough to know why there is all of the rancor against him, but one can safely assume that when you hear the complaining about the mess Illlinois is in, it's at least a loose indictment of Madigan.  

    Glad to hear you think your situation is in good standing.  I know an awful lot of teachers who chose that career for a number of reasons, but ONE of which was very much based upon the retirement they receive.

    Madigan has no more pull than any other long-term politician in any state.  The Republicans have done a good job creating a local boogeyman just as they have national ones.  My current state congressman claims that his opponent had to make a promise to support Madigan.  His snatchy "consultant" said that "it's all true".  I asked if she could show me where the democratic challenger had to make such a promise.  Crickets.

    I don't rule out that he has some kind of undue, excessive power that goes above what a normal Speaker might have.  I'm just not sure what kind of pull he has to force the Senate majority leader or the Governor to play along by his rules.  I'd think they could tell him to go fuck off.  Rauner seemed able to do that.  

    I think the word you were looking for above was "cunty" and not snatchy.

    Exactly.  I haven't seen a single Republican in the state who hasn't used him in their ads.  Roskam has an entire ad that is Casten morphing into Madigan.  Speaking of Roskam, Steve Scalise is coming to stump for him on Wednesday.  Scalise was on WLS this morning, and his shtick is pretty much what Aloha said.  They were talking about the democratic angry mobs, and they asked him about this weekend's events in New York.  Scalise said "yeah, but we call out the violence, the democrats don't".  Hmmmm..."good people on both sides" anyone?
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by alohafri on Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:37 pm

    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:I'm well aware that Madigan is the main guy.  You can't live in Illinois and not know that.  I'm just saying he's not the only guy.  He's the speaker of the House.  He has a lot of pull.  Still, he's one chamber.  There's a senate and a governor.  I don't follow the state enough to know why there is all of the rancor against him, but one can safely assume that when you hear the complaining about the mess Illlinois is in, it's at least a loose indictment of Madigan.  

    Glad to hear you think your situation is in good standing.  I know an awful lot of teachers who chose that career for a number of reasons, but ONE of which was very much based upon the retirement they receive.

    Madigan has no more pull than any other long-term politician in any state.  The Republicans have done a good job creating a local boogeyman just as they have national ones.  My current state congressman claims that his opponent had to make a promise to support Madigan.  His snatchy "consultant" said that "it's all true".  I asked if she could show me where the democratic challenger had to make such a promise.  Crickets.

    I have to disagree. As House Speaker, and a long-term House Speaker at that, he has much more pull than some farmer from Podunk, Illinois who has been in the Senate for 30 some-odd years. You always have more power in a leadership position. Is he a boogeyman? Maybe he is. But you don't hear too many Democrats calling for him to step down, even with this sexual harassment deal regarding someone on his staff. Are they afraid to come out and suggest that he step down from his Speaker role? Republicans and Democrats on the national level have come out to call for people from their own party to step down for various "infractions".


    Is he a boogeyman? Or is he Illinois' William Marcy Tweed?
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by alohafri on Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:40 pm

    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:I'm well aware that Madigan is the main guy.  You can't live in Illinois and not know that.  I'm just saying he's not the only guy.  He's the speaker of the House.  He has a lot of pull.  Still, he's one chamber.  There's a senate and a governor.  I don't follow the state enough to know why there is all of the rancor against him, but one can safely assume that when you hear the complaining about the mess Illlinois is in, it's at least a loose indictment of Madigan.  

    Glad to hear you think your situation is in good standing.  I know an awful lot of teachers who chose that career for a number of reasons, but ONE of which was very much based upon the retirement they receive.

    Madigan has no more pull than any other long-term politician in any state.  The Republicans have done a good job creating a local boogeyman just as they have national ones.  My current state congressman claims that his opponent had to make a promise to support Madigan.  His snatchy "consultant" said that "it's all true".  I asked if she could show me where the democratic challenger had to make such a promise.  Crickets.

    I don't rule out that he has some kind of undue, excessive power that goes above what a normal Speaker might have.  I'm just not sure what kind of pull he has to force the Senate majority leader or the Governor to play along by his rules.  I'd think they could tell him to go fuck off.  Rauner seemed able to do that.  

    I think the word you were looking for above was "cunty" and not snatchy.

    Exactly.  I haven't seen a single Republican in the state who hasn't used him in their ads.  Roskam has an entire ad that is Casten morphing into Madigan.  Speaking of Roskam, Steve Scalise is coming to stump for him on Wednesday.  Scalise was on WLS this morning, and his shtick is pretty much what Aloha said.  They were talking about the democratic angry mobs, and they asked him about this weekend's events in New York.  Scalise said "yeah, but we call out the violence, the democrats don't".  Hmmmm..."good people on both sides" anyone?

    Those ads annoy the Hell out of me because, as I said before, they aren't from the candidates themselves. They are from some PAC. Big money bullshit.


    I can't stand Rauner, but I'll say, I can appreciate the ad he is running now about the promise of Illinois. Not an attack on Pritzker (who is another doofus), but a vision of the state. I appreciate any non-negative attack ads.
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    cream919
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by cream919 on Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:00 pm

    Y'all have gone off the rails on what the point of my original post was. I wasn't talking about specific candidates and who's this and who's that. Indeed, that strikes me as symptomatic as to why the "conservatives" have been so successful at making "liberal" a term to be scoffed at. They have managed to attack, very successfully I might add, an entire political philosophy and make it seem to be the bane of all things American. So while democrats and "liberals" can't see the forest for the trees and get caught up in individual races and contests, the right focuses on the political party and left-wing belief system as a whole and attack by way of carpet-bombing. Fuck individual races...blow the whole philosophy out of the water and make it look bad...the individual races will then take care of themselves because dumbass and uninformed voters will hit the polls believing that "liberalism" marks the decline of American values as we know it. The result? Straight ticket Republican voting. It's worked very well for the GOP and will continue to work until the left starts fighting fire with fire. 

    Do you actually think republicans give two shits about how bad their candidates are? Not when they have the "liberal" scourge to defend our country against!

    And oh yeah Kevin...last time I voted in a primary I took a republican ballot because of a couple of decent friends I had running in the primaries. They didn't win so when the general election came I voted straight democrat. Still, as far as this county is concerned I'm registered as a republican. Nevertheless, the mailing I got wasn't about convincing anyone to change their mind on a specific candidate...it was all about getting the base out because Nancy Pelosi is coming to eat their first-born. Which is the whole reason I started this thread...I have not EVER seen one mailing or advertisement attempting to to get the left off their ass and to the polls so they can stop the spread of "conservatism". I guess you have to be actually organized to do such things.
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by sharpy on Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:09 pm

    cream919 wrote:Y'all have gone off the rails on what the point of my original post was. I wasn't talking about specific candidates and who's this and who's that. Indeed, that strikes me as symptomatic as to why the "conservatives" have been so successful at making "liberal" a term to be scoffed at. They have managed to attack, very successfully I might add, an entire political philosophy and make it seem to be the bane of all things American. So while democrats and "liberals" can't see the forest for the trees and get caught up in individual races and contests, the right focuses on the political party and left-wing belief system as a whole and attack by way of carpet-bombing. Fuck individual races...blow the whole philosophy out of the water and make it look bad...the individual races will then take care of themselves because dumbass and uninformed voters will hit the polls believing that "liberalism" marks the decline of American values as we know it. The result? Straight ticket Republican voting. It's worked very well for the GOP and will continue to work until the left starts fighting fire with fire. 

    Do you actually think republicans give two shits about how bad their candidates are? Not when they have the "liberal" scourge to defend our country against!

    And oh yeah Kevin...last time I voted in a primary I took a republican ballot because of a couple of decent friends I had running in the primaries. They didn't win so when the general election came I voted straight democrat. Still, as far as this county is concerned I'm registered as a republican. Nevertheless, the mailing I got wasn't about convincing anyone to change their mind on a specific candidate...it was all about getting the base out because Nancy Pelosi is coming to eat their first-born. Which is the whole reason I started this thread...I have not EVER seen one mailing or advertisement attempting to to get the left off their ass and to the polls so they can stop the spread of "conservatism". I guess you have to be actually organized to do such things.

    The one thing I don't understand is why the Democrats don't point out and run on the fascist aspect of Trump and his assholes. The fact they came out against the first amendment against the press, and against the right of peaceful assembly and protest - ideas fundamental to this country and what it is supposed to stand for. And I blame Pelosi and that weenie wimp limpdick schumer who instead of stating the Kavanaugh LIED to congress and committed PERJURY he states that he was not "fully honest in some of his responses"...WTF??   that means NOTHING to most people - that looks like little Johnny didn't tell you he pulled little Suzie's ponytail - not lying to congress.   
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by cream919 on Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:30 pm

    Exactly Tim. And I agree about the fascist angle. If the democrats were smart they would not only point out the attack on the press, et al, but they would also tie it all in DIRECTLY to the "conservative" philosophy! Make it NOT a Trump issue but a CONSERVATIVE issue and be relentless and unforgiving about it!!!! Make Trump merely a symptom of the larger "conservative" problem and just keep hammering away. Exactly like they have with Pelosi, Clinton and their ilk. Show no fucking mercy. 

    Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi!
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:33 pm

    cream919 wrote:Exactly Tim. And I agree about the fascist angle. If the democrats were smart they would not only point out the attack on the press, et al, but they would also tie it all in DIRECTLY to the "conservative" philosophy! Make it NOT a Trump issue but a CONSERVATIVE issue and be relentless and unforgiving about it!!!! Make Trump merely a symptom of the larger "conservative" problem and just keep hammering away. Exactly like they have with Pelosi, Clinton and their ilk. Show no fucking mercy. 

    Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi!

    I'm just not sure it'd work.  It's worth a try, but I suspect that the American electorate is too pedestrian to worry much about fascism.  Most folks don't even know what the fuck that means.  Even Trump trying to ban peaceful assembly outside of the White House....His supporters won't care....First Amendment, Shmirst Amendment.  Those protester people are the angry mob and they are dangerous and need to be stopped, so Trump trying to stop it works for them.  Ultimately, Trump messages the shit out of every little bit of positive data that comes out of his presidency and his supporters eat that shit up and repeat it back to me tenfold every day.  Do you know how often I have it repeated to me that this is the best black folks unemployment rate ever?  Best stock market ever.  Best unemployment rate and economy ever.  Granted, none of that shit is very true or relevant, but they are touting that stupid shit because he's good at messaging and lying.  

    It's sad, but sometimes I think Dems might need to resort to the same shit.  Lie, lie, lie, and then lie and then message the shit out of that lie.  Along with that, maybe Dems need to only refer to him as a sexual predator.  Every time they mention his name, refer to him as a predator.  Refer to him as a tax cheat every time his name is in conversation.  Not a tax dodger.  A tax cheat.  Not sexual assault.  A sexual predator, or as Blondy likes to call him...a rapist.  From now on, they should only refer to him as sexual predator and tax cheat president Trump.  I guaranfuckingtee you that the GOP would message that way about a Dem president.  They'd be saying that shit in their God damn sleep.  Trump's gotta be laughing himself to sleep every night that the dems can't figure out how to message what an evil pile of garbage he is.
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by cream919 on Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:30 pm

    You're starting to see the light Rob. Fight fire with fire and show no mercy. Politics has NEVER been the most honest thing in the world to begin with but Trump and far-right "conservatives" have elevated lying to an art form. I stand in awe of them. The left has the smarts to do it...the question then becomes if they have the guts. This "go high when they go low" nonsense might look sweet on a bumper sticker but that's about all it's good for when you're going against the current GOP. 

    What have you got to lose when you're getting your ass kicked anyway?
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:46 pm

    cream919 wrote:You're starting to see the light Rob. Fight fire with fire and show no mercy. Politics has NEVER been the most honest thing in the world to begin with but Trump and far-right "conservatives" have elevated lying to an art form. I stand in awe of them. The left has the smarts to do it...the question then becomes if they have the guts. This "go high when they go low" nonsense might look sweet on a bumper sticker but that's about all it's good for when you're going against the current GOP. 

    What have you got to lose when you're getting your ass kicked anyway?

    It seems to be the only thing that works right now.  Believe me, I'm a "go high" pinko liberal when it comes to that shit.  I've always believed you rise above the fray, but that has shown not to work in this culture and with this electorate.  So, we can either go to bed feeling good about ourselves while we lose elections, or feeling bad about how we won some elections.  All I know is if you win, you can do the things that you think will make the world a better place.  

    I was in awe of the GOP's neverending stick-to-it-iveness during the time after passing ACA.  They only called it the Job Killing Healthcare Bill.  It wasn't killing jobs, but they were thrilled and vigilant about calling it that.  If not, they were calling it the Democrat Government takeover of healthcare.  Dems are just too nice and/or polite about this stuff. They could be referring to Trump endlessly as a sexual predator, tax cheat but they can't get the guts to do it.
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:49 pm

    cream919 wrote:
    What have you got to lose when you're getting your ass kicked anyway?

    Or as Hawk Harrelson would say..."Go up to the plate and at least make yourself dangerous."  

    Or "Swing hard in case you hit it."

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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by jaywit on Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:20 am

    cream919 wrote:Liberalism!! So I get this political mailing yesterday breathlessly urging me to support our beloved president by voting republican across the board. And why? To stop the "liberal" agenda of course. The great scourge of our country...LIBERALISM!!!!! Of course it goes without saying that the faces on the front of this mailing were Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer!! The usual suspects.

    Nothing really new here...we've seen this all before in mailings, television ads, town hall meetings, speeches by Trump and all his cronies...blah, blah, blah. It's been going on for, well, decades. So my question is this...when was the last time you saw a left wing politician use the term "conservatism" disparagingly and portray it as something bad and negative in their advertising, speeches...any fucking thing!!!??? 

    Yeah...that's what I thought.

    No wonder the right has the left flinching like a bunch of snowflakes and candy-asses.
    The first I recall the term "liberal" being used derisively was by Reagan campaigning against Mondale for the 84 election.  It may have been used prior to that but that's my earliest recollection.  It seemed from that point on, that term was a mark of shame.



    Along the same lines, the right has stolen a word for themselves and the left has freely and stupidly let them.  That term is "patriot".  They are continually referring to themselves as patriotic and implying progressivism is anti-USA.   Since when has "patriot" meant conservative?  The "founding fathers" have been claimed by the right as "their" founding fathers.  Fuck, in their time was there anyone more progressive than our founding fathers?  


    The left needs to realize the political power of patriotism.  They need to paint progressivism as patriotic.  They need to figuratively wrap themselves in the flag as much as the right does.  Protesting the flag is politically dumb.  Don't let the right take away your flag, the flag stands for progressivism, stands for America of the future as much as it does for America of the past.
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by cream919 on Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:49 pm

    Well put Jay and I couldn't agree more. I get the kneeling thing but damn....don't shoot yourself in the foot to make a point. All you're doing is making you and the political party you tend to represent appear to be anti-American because the right has jumped on it and made it about that.  There's got to be a better way. As an argument for another day I have personally NEVER understood why the national anthem is played at a sporting event to begin with...same thing for the 7th inning playing of "God Bless America". I'm probably in the minority on this but it's a fucking ball game...not a patriotic celebration. I've felt this way since I was in grade school.
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by alohafri on Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:47 am

    cream919 wrote:Well put Jay and I couldn't agree more. I get the kneeling thing but damn....don't shoot yourself in the foot to make a point. All you're doing is making you and the political party you tend to represent appear to be anti-American because the right has jumped on it and made it about that.  There's got to be a better way. As an argument for another day I have personally NEVER understood why the national anthem is played at a sporting event to begin with...same thing for the 7th inning playing of "God Bless America". I'm probably in the minority on this but it's a fucking ball game...not a patriotic celebration. I've felt this way since I was in grade school.


    I think the anthem started back in the 40's. "God Bless America" started after 9/11. 


    The current anthem hooha (well, it will be current again when Trump needs a distraction to fire up his "base") began because the military came to an agreement with the NFL in order to increase enlistments. So it was basically used for a commercial. Before this, the only time you'd see the anthem on television was during the Super Bowl when they'd break out some known singer to belt it out.


    The anthem should be used to unite us. Trump is using it to divide us.
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    Re: The dirty word...

    Post by cream919 on Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:44 pm

    I'm all for the anthem being played at patriotic celebrations and the like. But before a sporting event? Why? All this Trumped-Up bullshit about kneeling and such and yet not a word about all of the patriots in the same stadium buying and serving up nachos and beer during its playing or guys standing at the urinal with their dicks in their hands during God Bless America. All it amounts to is hypocritical bullshit so you can point your finger at people you have an ax to grind with. A question: Does anybody here stand in their home and sing along with the television with hand over their heart when the anthem is played? Or at work if you hear it played over the radio? If not, then why not and what's the difference?

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