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    sharpy
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    Re: Well...

    Post by sharpy on Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:28 pm

    So people should be held accountable for things they did 35 years ago when they were kids?

    I guess it depends on what you did 35 yrs ago.  Clearly we all did get drunk, and maybe did some weed or other pharmaceuticals we shouldn't have done - petty theft, shoplifted candy or donuts, or even did some minor vandalism as a goofy prank ...and no, maybe that shouldn't be held against you. But as drunk or as high, or as fucked up as I have ever been, I've never tried to rape anyone or kill anyone, or seriously beat someone up...Doesn't the severity of the transgression tell us something about the content of his character??
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Well...

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:32 pm

    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:Kavanaugh says he wasn't at the party in question.  He's a year older than me.  I went to a TON of parties in high school, and I couldn't tell you with any certainty that I wasn't at a party.  I'm probably better able to say with certain that I WAS at a party, assuming that someone brings it up and I remember it very specifically, but it's entirely feasible that someone bring up a party about which I have no recollection, even if I were there.  So how does Kavanaugh remember that he wasn't there?  And Dr. Ford says she doesn't remember the house where the party was, so without a party location, how the fuck does the sexual predator know that he wasn't there?

    I was struck by the same thing, which is that they haven't announced the location of the incident.  I have friends occasionally tell me about funny shit we encountered in college at a bar or a party, and I'm like "what?  Was I at that?"

    Regardless, sounds like there'll now be a public hearing soon.  Compelling television, I'm sure.  I have a tendency to believe stories like this, but I'm nowhere near ready to call him a sexual predator any more than I'm willing to declare her as truthful.  Still, between having it in her therapy notes and passing a polygraph, I mean holy shit...is he willing to take a polygraph?  I can assure you he'll be asked that by a dem senator during that hearing.

    I'm not particularly sure what she has to gain from all of this, unless she's being fed a boatload of secret cash for doing it.


    As I'm watching the Bears game, I can hear Laura Ingraham upstairs complaining about the additional hearings that this is going to take. At least he's getting a hearing, which is more than I can say for Merrick Garland. But, naturally, that's ancient history.

    Christ almighty....we're talking about allegations of an attempted rape and someone is complaining about extra hearings?  Ingraham is vile.  I can't decide which one is more horrifying between Ingraham and Tomi Lahren.  I didn't think I could so dislike someone that attractive.  They are both just pure poison.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Well...

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:41 pm

    sharpy wrote:So people should be held accountable for things they did 35 years ago when they were kids?

    I guess it depends on what you did 35 yrs ago.  Clearly we all did get drunk, and maybe did some weed or other pharmaceuticals we shouldn't have done - petty theft, shoplifted candy or donuts, or even did some minor vandalism as a goofy prank ...and no, maybe that shouldn't be held against you. But as drunk or as high, or as fucked up as I have ever been, I've never tried to rape anyone or kill anyone, or seriously beat someone up...Doesn't the severity of the transgression tell us something about the content of his character??

    My thinking, too.  I'm sure I rolled around in the hay with some chicks back then and got my hand slapped trying to grab some ass, but then I stopped dead in my tracks.  When I hear of putting a hand over someone's mouth and groping them, that's 100x worse than anything I'd ever have considered even in my drunkest, stupidest state of mind.  If someone did something like this as a teenager, I don't expect that they are suddenly a quality adult unless they have repented to the face of that victim at sometime in the past of their own volition, with nothing to gain from facing that person.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Well...

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:51 pm

    alohafri wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Sounds like they want this accuser's hearing to be done privately and not publicly.  That tells me the GOP thinks she's a solid witness and they fear the public siding with her.

    People are trying to compare this with Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill. I disagree with that. Both of them were minors when this happened. 

    Agreed.  Very different situations.  They were minors when this occurred, and the charges are a bit more serious (attempted rape, or some kind of physical assault versus verbal harassment).  I can vaguely recall some of the crazy shit I did as a kid, but I'd struggle to recall specific parties and places where I did crazy stuff.  I expect the same of this guy, whether or not he's being truthful.

    Yeah, I can't believe the people on the right who are trying to compare this with drunken teen hi-jinx.  The way this has been described is disturbing.

    So people should be held accountable for things they did 35 years ago when they were kids?

    To a degree, yes.  To a degree, no.  At this point, he's claiming it never happened, so now it's a question of whether we hold him accountable for 35 yrs ago as a kid, and also, if we believe HER, do we hold him accountable for lying now?

    It's not like as a 16-17 yr old you're just a kid who doesn't understand shit.  
    Vandalism, petty theft, fighting, drunken ass grabbing....shit like that....no big deal 35 yrs after doing that as a teen.  
    Rape, attempted rape, violent transgressions against others, felony theft....shit like that...kind of a bigger deal.  
    This one so far, from the victim's perspective, sounds like the latter more than the former.
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    cream919
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    Re: Well...

    Post by cream919 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:01 pm

    I get that they were teens and drunk, fucked up or whatever. But if he actually assaulted this young woman, I think it tells you about this dude's filter more than anything...and that's what bothers me given that he's vying for a kinda important position.
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    blondy28
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    Re: Well...

    Post by blondy28 on Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:44 am

    alohafri wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Sounds like they want this accuser's hearing to be done privately and not publicly.  That tells me the GOP thinks she's a solid witness and they fear the public siding with her.

    People are trying to compare this with Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill. I disagree with that. Both of them were minors when this happened. 

    Agreed.  Very different situations.  They were minors when this occurred, and the charges are a bit more serious (attempted rape, or some kind of physical assault versus verbal harassment).  I can vaguely recall some of the crazy shit I did as a kid, but I'd struggle to recall specific parties and places where I did crazy stuff.  I expect the same of this guy, whether or not he's being truthful.

    Yeah, I can't believe the people on the right who are trying to compare this with drunken teen hi-jinx.  The way this has been described is disturbing.

    So people should be held accountable for things they did 35 years ago when they were kids?

    It's a job.  If I went on a job interview and I had sexually assaulted someone in high school, and there were literally HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of people qualified for the same job and they hadn't sexually assaulted someone, then I just might not get that job...especially if that's a lifetime job.  Let's not use the term "held accountable" like we're talking about him being held accountable criminally.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Well...

    Post by alohafri on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:12 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:Kavanaugh says he wasn't at the party in question.  He's a year older than me.  I went to a TON of parties in high school, and I couldn't tell you with any certainty that I wasn't at a party.  I'm probably better able to say with certain that I WAS at a party, assuming that someone brings it up and I remember it very specifically, but it's entirely feasible that someone bring up a party about which I have no recollection, even if I were there.  So how does Kavanaugh remember that he wasn't there?  And Dr. Ford says she doesn't remember the house where the party was, so without a party location, how the fuck does the sexual predator know that he wasn't there?

    I was struck by the same thing, which is that they haven't announced the location of the incident.  I have friends occasionally tell me about funny shit we encountered in college at a bar or a party, and I'm like "what?  Was I at that?"

    Regardless, sounds like there'll now be a public hearing soon.  Compelling television, I'm sure.  I have a tendency to believe stories like this, but I'm nowhere near ready to call him a sexual predator any more than I'm willing to declare her as truthful.  Still, between having it in her therapy notes and passing a polygraph, I mean holy shit...is he willing to take a polygraph?  I can assure you he'll be asked that by a dem senator during that hearing.

    I'm not particularly sure what she has to gain from all of this, unless she's being fed a boatload of secret cash for doing it.


    As I'm watching the Bears game, I can hear Laura Ingraham upstairs complaining about the additional hearings that this is going to take. At least he's getting a hearing, which is more than I can say for Merrick Garland. But, naturally, that's ancient history.

    Christ almighty....we're talking about allegations of an attempted rape and someone is complaining about extra hearings?  Ingraham is vile.  I can't decide which one is more horrifying between Ingraham and Tomi Lahren.  I didn't think I could so dislike someone that attractive.  They are both just pure poison.

    Laura Ingraham is attractive? I wouldn't fuck her with Bea Arthur's dick.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Well...

    Post by alohafri on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:14 am

    cream919 wrote:I get that they were teens and drunk, fucked up or whatever. But if he actually assaulted this young woman, I think it tells you about this dude's filter more than anything...and that's what bothers me given that he's vying for a kinda important position.


    Right now it's a he said/she said. That's why they are holding the hearing. I kinda hope this hearing thing goes along and Kavanaugh decides to drop his name from nomination. There's something smarmy about him that I don't really trust.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Well...

    Post by alohafri on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:19 am

    And Don Don's not helping Kavanaugh's cause with his obnoxious tweet.


    Here's what's going to drive Trump over the edge. Don Don's going to get indicted for the Russian collusion and they're going to have a shit ton of evidence. Don Sr. is going to be forced to either defend his son, ignore him, or try to pardon him. None of those choices will have very good outcomes for Trump the President.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Well...

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:22 am

    Kev, I assume you know I was referring to Tomi Lahren, whose fabulous looks are vastly overshadowed by her vile meanness and constant cuntiness. That said, I don't find Ingraham to be physically unattractive, but she is vile.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Well...

    Post by alohafri on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:52 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Kev, I assume you know I was referring to Tomi Lahren, whose fabulous looks are vastly overshadowed by her vile meanness and constant cuntiness.  That said, I don't find Ingraham to be physically unattractive, but she is vile.

    You know you would stand in line behind Kark to take a shot at Ingraham.  tongue

    Maybe I'm gay, but I don't find Lahren that attractive. Maybe it's her vileness that mungs it up for me.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Well...

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:04 pm

    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Kev, I assume you know I was referring to Tomi Lahren, whose fabulous looks are vastly overshadowed by her vile meanness and constant cuntiness.  That said, I don't find Ingraham to be physically unattractive, but she is vile.

    You know you would stand in line behind Kark to take a shot at Ingraham.  tongue

    Maybe I'm gay, but I don't find Lahren that attractive. Maybe it's her vileness that mungs it up for me.

    I suspect that if Lahren had a sweetie pie personality, you and the rest of us would think her a pretty little angel.  She is so vile, however, that it's easy to see how anyone wouldn't see her as attractive.
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    Re: Well...

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:08 pm

    It's been interesting hearing the president and several senators note how terrible or how badly they feel for Kavanaugh having to deal with these accusations.  Poor guy.  It's also odd to hear Dem senators noting that they believe the accuser already, even before she's testified.  Maybe they've already spoken to her in person and know more than I realize.
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    blondy28
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    Re: Well...

    Post by blondy28 on Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:59 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:It's been interesting hearing the president and several senators note how terrible or how badly they feel for Kavanaugh having to deal with these accusations.  Poor guy.  It's also odd to hear Dem senators noting that they believe the accuser already, even before she's testified.  Maybe they've already spoken to her in person and know more than I realize.

    Maybe the Dems have common sense.  Maybe they realize how patently absurd it would be that if one were to fabricate a story, that they would put a witness in the room.  Something made up out of thin air would NOT include a 3rd person.  And something made up out of thin air to bring someone down wouldn't be an attempted rape...it would be a full blown rape.  I mean why not, right?  If it's all made up anyway.  And we're to believe that she's been planning this since 2012 when she discussed it with her therapist?    Dems want to call many witnesses.  Republicans don't want to call any and just want it to be her word against his, even though the scenario she presented involves several witnesses.  Republicans don't want the FBI to investigate.  Why?  Don't you think if Kavanaugh were innocent and this was actually a partisan attack job that Trump would want to expose that?  I mean, he's always talking about the witch hunt and how Hillary is really guilty of any number of things, but if he was able to expose the dems as playing really dirty, why wouldn't he pursue that aggressively?  I'd bet my kids that the accuser is telling the truth.
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    blondy28
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    Re: Well...

    Post by blondy28 on Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:01 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:It's been interesting hearing the president and several senators note how terrible or how badly they feel for Kavanaugh having to deal with these accusations.  Poor guy.  It's also odd to hear Dem senators noting that they believe the accuser already, even before she's testified.  Maybe they've already spoken to her in person and know more than I realize.

    Mark Judge is refusing to testify under oath.  Do the math.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Well...

    Post by alohafri on Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:14 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:It's been interesting hearing the president and several senators note how terrible or how badly they feel for Kavanaugh having to deal with these accusations.  Poor guy.  It's also odd to hear Dem senators noting that they believe the accuser already, even before she's testified.  Maybe they've already spoken to her in person and know more than I realize.


    I feel badly for a lot of people. It doesn't mean I want them working for me. I feel bad for Robin Ventura who was put into a nearly impossible position. That doesn't mean I want him managing my team...or even my apartment building.


    I guess in Trump's world, if you feel badly for someone, you need to keep trying to get them a job on the highest court in the land.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Well...

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:08 pm

    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:It's been interesting hearing the president and several senators note how terrible or how badly they feel for Kavanaugh having to deal with these accusations.  Poor guy.  It's also odd to hear Dem senators noting that they believe the accuser already, even before she's testified.  Maybe they've already spoken to her in person and know more than I realize.

    Maybe the Dems have common sense.  Maybe they realize how patently absurd it would be that if one were to fabricate a story, that they would put a witness in the room.  Something made up out of thin air would NOT include a 3rd person.  And something made up out of thin air to bring someone down wouldn't be an attempted rape...it would be a full blown rape.  I mean why not, right?  If it's all made up anyway.  And we're to believe that she's been planning this since 2012 when she discussed it with her therapist?    Dems want to call many witnesses.  Republicans don't want to call any and just want it to be her word against his, even though the scenario she presented involves several witnesses.  Republicans don't want the FBI to investigate.  Why?  Don't you think if Kavanaugh were innocent and this was actually a partisan attack job that Trump would want to expose that?  I mean, he's always talking about the witch hunt and how Hillary is really guilty of any number of things, but if he was able to expose the dems as playing really dirty, why wouldn't he pursue that aggressively?  I'd bet my kids that the accuser is telling the truth.

    Oh, believe me, I fully get where you're coming from and basically agree.  I just think it's a bit silly to go on the record as "believing her" until she's able to be questioned and we can garner some idea of the kind of person she is.  Like you said, I don't see any point in fabricating any of this unless there's a bunch of money in it for her, or she feels scorned by him at teens.  I've heard about the therapist notes and the FBI polygraph, but I don't know for certain that all of that is true.

    And if she's going to lie and also claim there's a third party, why would she name an espoused right winger who is sure to take Kav's side in the story?  For now, she appears a very credible witness.
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    blondy28
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    Re: Well...

    Post by blondy28 on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:21 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:It's been interesting hearing the president and several senators note how terrible or how badly they feel for Kavanaugh having to deal with these accusations.  Poor guy.  It's also odd to hear Dem senators noting that they believe the accuser already, even before she's testified.  Maybe they've already spoken to her in person and know more than I realize.

    Maybe the Dems have common sense.  Maybe they realize how patently absurd it would be that if one were to fabricate a story, that they would put a witness in the room.  Something made up out of thin air would NOT include a 3rd person.  And something made up out of thin air to bring someone down wouldn't be an attempted rape...it would be a full blown rape.  I mean why not, right?  If it's all made up anyway.  And we're to believe that she's been planning this since 2012 when she discussed it with her therapist?    Dems want to call many witnesses.  Republicans don't want to call any and just want it to be her word against his, even though the scenario she presented involves several witnesses.  Republicans don't want the FBI to investigate.  Why?  Don't you think if Kavanaugh were innocent and this was actually a partisan attack job that Trump would want to expose that?  I mean, he's always talking about the witch hunt and how Hillary is really guilty of any number of things, but if he was able to expose the dems as playing really dirty, why wouldn't he pursue that aggressively?  I'd bet my kids that the accuser is telling the truth.

    Oh, believe me, I fully get where you're coming from and basically agree.  I just think it's a bit silly to go on the record as "believing her" until she's able to be questioned and we can garner some idea of the kind of person she is.  Like you said, I don't see any point in fabricating any of this unless there's a bunch of money in it for her, or she feels scorned by him at teens.  I've heard about the therapist notes and the FBI polygraph, but I don't know for certain that all of that is true.

    And if she's going to lie and also claim there's a third party, why would she name an espoused right winger who is sure to take Kav's side in the story?  For now, she appears a very credible witness.

    And you will notice that Judge's statements do not deny it happened...merely that he has no recollection.  And he won't even say that under oath.  I mean, according to the victim, Judge went back and forth between cheering on Kavanaugh and telling him to stop, and he jumped on them, which ultimately freed her.  Judge's refusal to speak under oath sure suggests that he knows what happened and doesn't want to perjure himself, but that's probably  because his actions that night were nearly as horrific as Kavanaugh's.
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    blondy28
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    Re: Well...

    Post by blondy28 on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:23 pm

    Accuser is requesting FBI investigation before public hearing.  Yet one more reason that she's credible.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Well...

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:44 pm

    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:It's been interesting hearing the president and several senators note how terrible or how badly they feel for Kavanaugh having to deal with these accusations.  Poor guy.  It's also odd to hear Dem senators noting that they believe the accuser already, even before she's testified.  Maybe they've already spoken to her in person and know more than I realize.

    Maybe the Dems have common sense.  Maybe they realize how patently absurd it would be that if one were to fabricate a story, that they would put a witness in the room.  Something made up out of thin air would NOT include a 3rd person.  And something made up out of thin air to bring someone down wouldn't be an attempted rape...it would be a full blown rape.  I mean why not, right?  If it's all made up anyway.  And we're to believe that she's been planning this since 2012 when she discussed it with her therapist?    Dems want to call many witnesses.  Republicans don't want to call any and just want it to be her word against his, even though the scenario she presented involves several witnesses.  Republicans don't want the FBI to investigate.  Why?  Don't you think if Kavanaugh were innocent and this was actually a partisan attack job that Trump would want to expose that?  I mean, he's always talking about the witch hunt and how Hillary is really guilty of any number of things, but if he was able to expose the dems as playing really dirty, why wouldn't he pursue that aggressively?  I'd bet my kids that the accuser is telling the truth.

    Oh, believe me, I fully get where you're coming from and basically agree.  I just think it's a bit silly to go on the record as "believing her" until she's able to be questioned and we can garner some idea of the kind of person she is.  Like you said, I don't see any point in fabricating any of this unless there's a bunch of money in it for her, or she feels scorned by him at teens.  I've heard about the therapist notes and the FBI polygraph, but I don't know for certain that all of that is true.

    And if she's going to lie and also claim there's a third party, why would she name an espoused right winger who is sure to take Kav's side in the story?  For now, she appears a very credible witness.

    And you will notice that Judge's statements do not deny it happened...merely that he has no recollection.  And he won't even say that under oath.  I mean, according to the victim, Judge went back and forth between cheering on Kavanaugh and telling him to stop, and he jumped on them, which ultimately freed her.  Judge's refusal to speak under oath sure suggests that he knows what happened and doesn't want to perjure himself, but that's probably  because his actions that night were nearly as horrific as Kavanaugh's.

    As soon as I heard he didn't want to testify, I immediately thought "dude don't wanna perjure himself."  This is fucking SHADY AS SHIT.  Holy crap.  If the GOP finds it in their heart to push this fuckin' guy through, it's gonna be game on.  If you think things are nasty now, this will be the end of the damn line.
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    Re: Well...

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:47 pm

    blondy28 wrote:Accuser is requesting FBI investigation before public hearing.  Yet one more reason that she's credible.

    You can pretty surely rest assured that Trump and the GOP ain't going along with an FBI investigation.  I'm pretty sure that the statute of limitations has expired on this, so I'm not sure what such an investigation is meant to accomplish, except to perhaps weed out some bad witnesses and verify some things, which might be worth while.  Will the FBI do such a thing if there's nothing in it for them?
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    Re: Well...

    Post by blondy28 on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:49 pm

    Just heard interview with David Brock, who was part of the trashing of Anita Hill.  He talked about the Republican playbook on this, and that Republicans deliberately offered a hearing with terms that accuser would never accept because she's seen what happened with Anita Hill.  When she refuses to attend (which she has), the Republicans are going to say "well, we gave her a chance", then they will move forward with the vote as planned.  These fuckers don't give a rat's behind if they're confirming a rapist to a lifetime appointment on the highest court in the land.
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    Re: Well...

    Post by blondy28 on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:50 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:Accuser is requesting FBI investigation before public hearing.  Yet one more reason that she's credible.

    You can pretty surely rest assured that Trump and the GOP ain't going along with an FBI investigation.  I'm pretty sure that the statute of limitations has expired on this, so I'm not sure what such an investigation is meant to accomplish, except to perhaps weed out some bad witnesses and verify some things, which might be worth while.  Will the FBI do such a thing if there's nothing in it for them?

    Yes.  They vet people.  But they can only act at the direction of the president.
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    sharpy
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    Re: Well...

    Post by sharpy on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:57 pm

    Maybe I'm gay, but I don't find Lahren that attractive.


    Well if that makes you gay, then we should go to Nantucket together cause she does nothing for me...I don't mind a woman dying or bleaching her hair, but not that color ...if that is a color 
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    Re: Well...

    Post by blondy28 on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:59 pm

    sharpy wrote:Maybe I'm gay, but I don't find Lahren that attractive.


    Well if that makes you gay, then we should go to Nantucket together cause she does nothing for me...I don't mind a woman dying or bleaching her hair, but not that color ...if that is a color 

    I think what you're all saying here is that I've ruined you for all other women.

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