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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Taboo topic

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:06 am

    Not a word about the Catholic Church coverup in Pennsylvania? Pretty gross story. Wondered if maybe folks are nervous about bringing it up out of fear of upsetting somebody. We're adults. I'll toss it out there. Seems like it's 15-70 yrs behind us, but I wonder if this sort of thing is still occurring in some places. And why does it seem confined to one religion? Do some think it's a symptom of their celibacy vow? I have known a number of involuntarily celibate guys who couldn't get a date...are they potential pedophiles at a greater rate?
    I remember the huge outcry from Christians over marriage equality and how it would pervert our nation. I also remember the shreiking about trans folks using the bathrooms of their chosen gender instead of their birth gender. Haven't seen or heard much outcry over this, however.

    frank bonifacic
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    Re: Taboo topic

    Post by frank bonifacic on Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:59 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Not a word about the Catholic Church coverup in Pennsylvania?  Pretty gross story.  Wondered if maybe folks are nervous about bringing it up out of fear of upsetting somebody.  We're adults.  I'll toss it out there.  Seems like it's 15-70 yrs behind us, but I wonder if this sort of thing is still occurring in some places.  And why does it seem confined to one religion?  Do some think it's a symptom of their celibacy vow?  I have known a number of involuntarily celibate guys who couldn't get a date...are they potential pedophiles at a greater rate?
    I remember the huge outcry from Christians over marriage equality and how it would pervert our nation.  I also remember the shreiking about trans folks using the bathrooms of their chosen gender instead of their birth gender.   Haven't seen or heard much outcry over this, however.
    Don't think there any more Catholic priest pedophiles than there are Lutheran ministers, Boy Scout leaders, teachers (nothing personal), athletic coaches etc.
    Don't hear as much about Protestant ministers-because they have to renew their contract every few years -and the church board doesn't , so it's over.
    Big deal a number of years ago about Boy Scouts. Now we have the Big Ten schools.
    Big deal on internet over child porn sites, so that would argue against one segment of society.
    Probably the same % of Catholic priests as in society in general. The celibacy could be a small issue, but was also a safe way for a gay to bend in with a respectable profession (not saying that all were but just the that were might find this a safe space-and not necessarily pedophiles, but just gays.)


    The real scandal is the cover-up. And if you have been following, you will notice that not all of it is with children. Bishops have sexually abused seminarians in the same way that businessman have abused underlings.


    Remember a priest I knew well. From a middle class family, very intelligent, devout who after ordination was on the fast track to higher rank. Was sent to Rome (always a good start and a path for those who would later be in the hierarchy.) Shortly after he arrived in Rome, a bishop made it clear that he would like to spend some "quality time" with him (he was also good looking). He made it very clear to the bishop that that wasn't happening. Lo and behold, the good assignments that he had been getting, dried up and in a fairly short time he was sent back to the states.
    He had a very successful and fulfilling career, but the Church may have lost what could have been a really good bishop!
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    alohafri
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    Re: Taboo topic

    Post by alohafri on Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:00 am

    I agree with you Frank. Unless I missed it, you left out teachers as well, and lately, there have been many female teachers accused of molesting young boys. One of the differences is with "young, hot" female teachers, the reactions are different..."where was she when I was in school" sort of thing.


    The cover up is just as bad as the actual molestation. I "know" a few priests from Facebook, one is on an XM Radio show I listen to frequently, and he has written in his homilies, which he posts online, about how much of a negative impact this has had on him personally. On a different level, the good priests and bishops, who weren't involved in any molestation or cover ups, are victims too. They can't go out in their Roman collars without getting the stink-eye from people, as if to say, "you are one of those, aren't you?"


    As a Catholic, I take a little solace in knowing that these cases are older cases, many of which where both the victims and priests are long dead. In the long run, getting this stuff out there will be good. The message being sent is that you can't do this anymore. 
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Taboo topic

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:04 am

    frank bonifacic wrote:

    Probably the same % of Catholic priests as in society in general. The celibacy could be a small issue, but was also a safe way for a gay to bend in with a respectable profession (not saying that all were but just the that were might find this a safe space-and not necessarily pedophiles, but just gays.)


    This is an interesting topic to me.  I recall suggesting to a friend that maybe we hear about priests because some are gay and hiding it from their family.  That friend got a bit bent out of shape and reminded me that "gay" doesn't equal "pedophile" and that most gay priests just find another gay priest and carry on privately.  I think he was making a fair point.  I once saw a study that found that nearly half of all priests carry on sexual relationships behind the scenes.  I suppose some of those are hetero and some are gay relationships.  

    I didn't bring any of this up to pick on any particular religion, just in case anyone thinks that.  I like to pick on them all equally!  This issue has me at a loss for words, which doesn't happen often.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Taboo topic

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:08 am

    alohafri wrote:The cover up is just as bad as the actual molestation. I "know" a few priests from Facebook, one is on an XM Radio show I listen to frequently, and he has written in his homilies, which he posts online, about how much of a negative impact this has had on him personally. On a different level, the good priests and bishops, who weren't involved in any molestation or cover ups, are victims too. They can't go out in their Roman collars without getting the stink-eye from people, as if to say, "you are one of those, aren't you?"

    That's potentially the saddest thing about all of this, Kevin.  There are thousands of priests who are great people, and who get a raw deal because they get lumped into this.  Not to mention just a typical church member that becomes ashamed to even tell someone he's a Catholic because it'll spur conversation about this.

    frank bonifacic
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    Re: Taboo topic

    Post by frank bonifacic on Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:26 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:The cover up is just as bad as the actual molestation. I "know" a few priests from Facebook, one is on an XM Radio show I listen to frequently, and he has written in his homilies, which he posts online, about how much of a negative impact this has had on him personally. On a different level, the good priests and bishops, who weren't involved in any molestation or cover ups, are victims too. They can't go out in their Roman collars without getting the stink-eye from people, as if to say, "you are one of those, aren't you?"

    That's potentially the saddest thing about all of this, Kevin.  There are thousands of priests who are great people, and who get a raw deal because they get lumped into this.  Not to mention just a typical church member that becomes ashamed to even tell someone he's a Catholic because it'll spur conversation about this.
     It really is. As you may have observed, my wife and I have a number of good friends who are Catholic priests. Our pastor a number of years ago was extremely close to us, so we became friends with the priests who were assigned to the parish.
    In fact, for many years, they had Christmas Eve dinner with us.
    There was a 4:00, 7:30 and 11:30 mass on Christmas eve, so they really couldn't go home to their families and get back.
    So, if they got there as we were about to eat, they joined us, and if they came later, the food was heated up and they had dinner. It was great for our kids also. There were always several priests on the altar for our children's weddings. In fact, one of my daughters acknowledged that as she said this was not "showy" but that these were people who she grew up with who were a part of her life. (Several of them mentioned that and were really pleased but that acknowledgement)
    I can't tell you how so much of this has hurt them. These are REALLY good people who have done tremendous work, and it is such a shame that they have to deal with this. 

    frank bonifacic
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    Re: Taboo topic

    Post by frank bonifacic on Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:27 am

    alohafri wrote:I agree with you Frank. Unless I missed it, you left out teachers as well, and lately, there have been many female teachers accused of molesting young boys. One of the differences is with "young, hot" female teachers, the reactions are different..."where was she when I was in school" sort of thing.


    The cover up is just as bad as the actual molestation. I "know" a few priests from Facebook, one is on an XM Radio show I listen to frequently, and he has written in his homilies, which he posts online, about how much of a negative impact this has had on him personally. On a different level, the good priests and bishops, who weren't involved in any molestation or cover ups, are victims too. They can't go out in their Roman collars without getting the stink-eye from people, as if to say, "you are one of those, aren't you?"


    As a Catholic, I take a little solace in knowing that these cases are older cases, many of which where both the victims and priests are long dead. In the long run, getting this stuff out there will be good. The message being sent is that you can't do this anymore. 
    And you accused Kark of not reading for comprehension!!
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    alohafri
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    Re: Taboo topic

    Post by alohafri on Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:45 pm

    frank bonifacic wrote:
    alohafri wrote:I agree with you Frank. Unless I missed it, you left out teachers as well, and lately, there have been many female teachers accused of molesting young boys. One of the differences is with "young, hot" female teachers, the reactions are different..."where was she when I was in school" sort of thing.


    The cover up is just as bad as the actual molestation. I "know" a few priests from Facebook, one is on an XM Radio show I listen to frequently, and he has written in his homilies, which he posts online, about how much of a negative impact this has had on him personally. On a different level, the good priests and bishops, who weren't involved in any molestation or cover ups, are victims too. They can't go out in their Roman collars without getting the stink-eye from people, as if to say, "you are one of those, aren't you?"


    As a Catholic, I take a little solace in knowing that these cases are older cases, many of which where both the victims and priests are long dead. In the long run, getting this stuff out there will be good. The message being sent is that you can't do this anymore. 
    And you accused Kark of not reading for comprehension!!

    LOL Touche!
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    blondy28
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    Re: Taboo topic

    Post by blondy28 on Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:25 pm

    Have you seen The Keepers on Netflix?  The release of this report reminds me of that documentary.  Although there are other professions where we do see this happening....sports, teachers, etc....I'm not sure the cover-ups were nearly to the level that you saw in the Catholic church.  It does seem that we're hearing just about every week about a hot female teacher who's had an affair with a student, but we don't usually (ever?) hear about how the principal, school board, etc. moved the teacher to another school to avoid bad publicity or to protect the teacher.  Even in cases where there's a cover-up (like Penn State), those who discover the crimes don't join in on the "fun".  I think what was most disturbing in the report is how there were multiple priests at the same congregation taking part in the abuse.  Or in the case of The Keepers, the priests actually invited other non-clergy to molest and rape the girls, and when Sister Kathy found out about it, she wound up dead.  The police were involved in the cover-up.  It does seem that the report documented cases from well in the past, and I give the Catholic church a lot of credit for investigating the abuses and releasing the report when many of the victims and perpetrators are dead.
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    sharpy
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    Re: Taboo topic

    Post by sharpy on Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:02 pm

    All I have to say about this is, I can't think of one other business that if word got out that 5000 of their employees had abused over 10,000 CHILDREN that wouldn't be bankrupt and history. Well I guess I take that back - the Mormons have survived as well. 
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Taboo topic

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:16 pm

    sharpy wrote:All I have to say about this is, I can't think of one other business that if word got out that 5000 of their employees had abused over 10,000 CHILDREN that wouldn't be bankrupt and history. Well I guess I take that back - the Mormons have survived as well. 

    Are Mormons known for that kind of thing?  I don't think I was aware of that.  I know there are a few polygamist factions where there's some odd abuse....
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    sharpy
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    Re: Taboo topic

    Post by sharpy on Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:07 pm

    Are Mormons known for that kind of thing?  I don't think I was aware of that.  I know there are a few polygamist factions where there's some odd abuse...


    I guess its how you define pedophilia …. since they marry girls about 14-15 yrs old (some do, not all) - that can be considered pedophilia  ……  or Kark-ism..

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