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    Is Pope Frank a liberal?

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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Is Pope Frank a liberal?

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon May 21, 2018 5:37 pm

    Pope Francis "reportedly" told a gay man "God made you like that and He loves you like that."  


    Is this dude turning into a progressive?  Or was he already a progressive?


    https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/21/europe/pope-francis-gay-comments-intl/index.html
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    alohafri
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    Re: Is Pope Frank a liberal?

    Post by alohafri on Mon May 21, 2018 8:34 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Pope Francis "reportedly" told a gay man "God made you like that and He loves you like that."  


    Is this dude turning into a progressive?  Or was he already a progressive?


    https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/21/europe/pope-francis-gay-comments-intl/index.html

    No. It is real Christian philosophy to love your fellow man. No where did he say "and I'm going to allow you to marry in the Church," nor did he say, "I am giving your lifestyle approval." All he has said was that God loves everyone.
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    cream919
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    Re: Is Pope Frank a liberal?

    Post by cream919 on Mon May 21, 2018 10:34 pm

    And then there's the conservative republican Christian philosophy!    cheers
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    blondy28
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    Re: Is Pope Frank a liberal?

    Post by blondy28 on Tue May 22, 2018 3:50 pm

    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Pope Francis "reportedly" told a gay man "God made you like that and He loves you like that."  


    Is this dude turning into a progressive?  Or was he already a progressive?


    https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/21/europe/pope-francis-gay-comments-intl/index.html

    No. It is real Christian philosophy to love your fellow man. No where did he say "and I'm going to allow you to marry in the Church," nor did he say, "I am giving your lifestyle approval." All he has said was that God loves everyone.

    He did say that God made him that way, contrary to what many religious folks believe...that it's a choice.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Is Pope Frank a liberal?

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Tue May 22, 2018 4:21 pm

    blondy28 wrote:

    He did say that God made him that way, contrary to what many religious folks believe...that it's a choice.

    That's what I thought was the important point...that he's suggesting he was "made that way" or in the words of Lady Gaga, he was "born this way."  That seems to imply that homosexuality is just another predisposition, like Kevin's proclivity toward redheads, or my preference for curvy chicks with meat on their bones.  That's a fairly significant step if Francis actually said all of that.

    Granted, this is not direct wording from the Pope.  It's someone else's claim about a conversation.  There's surely room for Frankie to say he never said any such thing.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Is Pope Frank a liberal?

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Tue May 22, 2018 4:26 pm

    alohafri wrote:


    No. It is real Christian philosophy to love your fellow man. No where did he say "and I'm going to allow you to marry in the Church," nor did he say, "I am giving your lifestyle approval." All he has said was that God loves everyone.

    I don't really follow the "approval" angle.  Do folks here approve of my lifestyle?  And if they do, should I care?  I get the "not allow you to marry in the Church" angle because that's a pretty objective thing.  Either you can do that, or you can't do that.  About the only person whose approval my lifestyle needs is my wife's, and perhaps my kids.  

    I'm not trying to argue with you, Kevin.  I don't even disagree with you.  Just saying that the whole "approval of a lifestyle" thing makes no sense to me, since I'm not sure may gays are looking for anyone's approval.  I think most of them just want equal rights.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Is Pope Frank a liberal?

    Post by alohafri on Wed May 23, 2018 7:00 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:


    No. It is real Christian philosophy to love your fellow man. No where did he say "and I'm going to allow you to marry in the Church," nor did he say, "I am giving your lifestyle approval." All he has said was that God loves everyone.

    I don't really follow the "approval" angle.  Do folks here approve of my lifestyle?  And if they do, should I care?  I get the "not allow you to marry in the Church" angle because that's a pretty objective thing.  Either you can do that, or you can't do that.  About the only person whose approval my lifestyle needs is my wife's, and perhaps my kids.  

    I'm not trying to argue with you, Kevin.  I don't even disagree with you.  Just saying that the whole "approval of a lifestyle" thing makes no sense to me, since I'm not sure may gays are looking for anyone's approval.  I think most of them just want equal rights.

    Approval in the church sense, meaning, I'm not changing church teaching. 
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Is Pope Frank a liberal?

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Wed May 23, 2018 9:12 am

    Doesn't church teaching include the notion that birth control is bad, and the only kind of allowable and moral sex is procreative sex? Does anyone give a fuck about church teaching in that particular realm anymore? I am pretty sure that modern Catholics are willfully using condoms and The Pill. Maybe they only care with respect to them gays.

    frank bonifacic
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    Re: Is Pope Frank a liberal?

    Post by frank bonifacic on Wed May 23, 2018 10:12 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Doesn't church teaching include the notion that birth control is bad, and the only kind of allowable and moral sex is procreative sex?  Does anyone give a fuck about church teaching in that particular realm anymore?  I am pretty sure that modern Catholics are willfully using condoms and The Pill.  Maybe they only care with respect to them gays.
    The Church is not a representative democracy.
    Whether its followers "follow" all the teaching does not lead to changing the teaching! I don't agree with all that they say, but I'm still a Catholic and go to church fairly regularly- of course, but for my wife, I probably wouldn't go as regularly as I do!

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    Re: Is Pope Frank a liberal?

    Post by frank bonifacic on Wed May 23, 2018 10:18 am

    frank bonifacic wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Doesn't church teaching include the notion that birth control is bad, and the only kind of allowable and moral sex is procreative sex?  Does anyone give a fuck about church teaching in that particular realm anymore?  I am pretty sure that modern Catholics are willfully using condoms and The Pill.  Maybe they only care with respect to them gays.
    The Church is not a representative democracy.
    Whether its followers "follow" all the teaching does not lead to changing the teaching! I don't agree with all that they say, but I'm still a Catholic and go to church fairly regularly- of course, but for my wife, I probably wouldn't go as regularly as I do!
    AND, unlike many of the bishops and Cardinals, I TOTALLY approve of this pope. Not since John XXIII has there been a pope who seems to "get it' that concern for your fellow man is really the crux of everything.
    Not a whole lot of people really follow that "Love your neighbor as yourself" Seems a whole lot of religious conservative who "follow" the Bible and argue that you can't be saved unless you accept Christ kind of gloss over what Christ called the second most commandment.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Is Pope Frank a liberal?

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Wed May 23, 2018 1:43 pm

    frank bonifacic wrote:

    AND, unlike many of the bishops and Cardinals, I TOTALLY approve of this pope. Not since John XXIII has there been a pope who seems to "get it' that concern for your fellow man is really the crux of everything.
    Not a whole lot of people really follow that "Love your neighbor as yourself" Seems a whole lot of religious conservative who "follow" the Bible and argue that you can't be saved unless you accept Christ kind of gloss over what Christ called the second most commandment.

    Agreed, Frank.  Thus far, he has struck me as one of the most (if not THE most) positive religious figures in my lifetime, who seems to actually grasp the whole idea of what religion ought to be about.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Is Pope Frank a liberal?

    Post by alohafri on Thu May 24, 2018 7:25 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Doesn't church teaching include the notion that birth control is bad, and the only kind of allowable and moral sex is procreative sex?  Does anyone give a fuck about church teaching in that particular realm anymore?  I am pretty sure that modern Catholics are willfully using condoms and The Pill.  Maybe they only care with respect to them gays.


    I'm sure they do use condoms and the pill. Their use is still considered a sin. It is still Church teaching. As G.K. Chesterton said, "fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions."

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