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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Golden Globes

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:34 am

    Oprah's speech during the Globes struck me last night as an opening presidential campaign speech.  Not really offering editorial here about whether or not it's a good idea, but I got the feeling she was sticking her foot in the water.  I saw today where her boyfriend/partner said she'd for sure run if she thought her fans really wanted her to do it.
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by alohafri on Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:57 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Oprah's speech during the Globes struck me last night as an opening presidential campaign speech.  Not really offering editorial here about whether or not it's a good idea, but I got the feeling she was sticking her foot in the water.  I saw today where her boyfriend/partner said she'd for sure run if she thought her fans really wanted her to do it.

    Thanks Trump voters.
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:07 pm

    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Oprah's speech during the Globes struck me last night as an opening presidential campaign speech.  Not really offering editorial here about whether or not it's a good idea, but I got the feeling she was sticking her foot in the water.  I saw today where her boyfriend/partner said she'd for sure run if she thought her fans really wanted her to do it.

    Thanks Trump voters.

    I can imagine far worse candidates.  Hard to be sure how prepared a person like Oprah would be to hold a political executive position, but I believe she'd at least put the country first and work in a way that she believes is beneficial to the greatest number of Americans, even if you or I didn't like how she was going about it.  if she runs, she can actually bill herself as a true, self-made billionaire, instead of one that got hundreds of millions of dollars from her family to get her started.  Bare minimum, I wouldn't lay in bed wondering if she's going to unnecessarily start a war with N. Korea.
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by alohafri on Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:14 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Oprah's speech during the Globes struck me last night as an opening presidential campaign speech.  Not really offering editorial here about whether or not it's a good idea, but I got the feeling she was sticking her foot in the water.  I saw today where her boyfriend/partner said she'd for sure run if she thought her fans really wanted her to do it.

    Thanks Trump voters.

    I can imagine far worse candidates.  

    When Trump and Kanye are your measuring sticks...Sorry, just like I'd prefer someone who has a medical degree as my doctor or an education degree teaching my kids, I'd like someone who knows about the political process to run the country.


    Trump, Orpah, Kanye, and any other of those Hollywierdos are a part of the American Idoling of this country. Make your bones somewhere in government. Reagan, before he was elected governor of California was the president of the SAG (a political position). Before he was elected governor of Minnesota, Jesse Ventura was mayor of Brooklyn Park, MN.
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:08 pm

    Kev, I'm with you, but I think this Trump thing has rewritten the rules of what people think is normal.  Five years ago, I'd have said it was ludicrous to imagine a President Winfrey, or Trump, or Mark Cuban.  Now, I just don't think you and I are in the majority on this.  Folks will say "Oprah has created a billion dollar empire while also being a public servant, so how is she not qualified?"  Plus, now that Trump won, folks will just figure all bets are off and abnormal is the new normal....hence, say hello to President Oprah.  

    I would also prefer to see someone run for president that understands politics, for heaven's sake.  My take is that you're going to see the Dem party pissing all over itself in attempts to keep on putting a woman on the general election ballot until one of them wins.  I think DNC has come to a conclusion (be it a good or a bad conclusion) that their path to the presidency is going to be to put a strong woman up that women in general will get behind.  If that woman needs to be Oprah, then that's what the DNC will do.
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by alohafri on Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:35 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Kev, I'm with you, but I think this Trump thing has rewritten the rules of what people think is normal.  Five years ago, I'd have said it was ludicrous to imagine a President Winfrey, or Trump, or Mark Cuban.  Now, I just don't think you and I are in the majority on this.  Folks will say "Oprah has created a billion dollar empire while also being a public servant, so how is she not qualified?"  Plus, now that Trump won, folks will just figure all bets are off and abnormal is the new normal....hence, say hello to President Oprah.  

    I would also prefer to see someone run for president that understands politics, for heaven's sake.  My take is that you're going to see the Dem party pissing all over itself in attempts to keep on putting a woman on the general election ballot until one of them wins.  I think DNC has come to a conclusion (be it a good or a bad conclusion) that their path to the presidency is going to be to put a strong woman up that women in general will get behind.  If that woman needs to be Oprah, then that's what the DNC will do.

    They're going to have to find someone other than Oprah, Michelle Obama, or even Elizabeth Warren. Hannity and Carlson are just licking their chops to get after those three.


    If this is the "new normal", I want no part of it.


    And how is Oprah a "public servant"? She does nothing without self-promotion. Calling her a public servant is like calling Donald Trump a public servant. It's all about the name.
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by alohafri on Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:49 pm

    And I understand that you are agreeing with me on the candidates from Hollywood, so I'm not arguing with you. I'm just on my soapbox. I hate that the American people have become so stupid to believe that experience means nothing. "If you are a lifelong businessman, you should be able to just slide into a teaching job. You don't need any training for that. Your experiences in business should be all you need." "Oh, you have run a business? That's exactly like running the federal government. You should be president." I wonder how many people think the same thing when it comes to someone to build their home, fix their teeth, or perform surgery on a loved one.
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by alohafri on Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:17 pm

    Although, Trump is apparently very Kennedy-like, as he is having a consensual Presidency.
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:26 pm

    alohafri wrote:

    They're going to have to find someone other than Oprah, Michelle Obama, or even Elizabeth Warren. Hannity and Carlson are just licking their chops to get after those three.


    If this is the "new normal", I want no part of it.


    And how is Oprah a "public servant"? She does nothing without self-promotion. Calling her a public servant is like calling Donald Trump a public servant. It's all about the name.

    Hannity is a yammering dope with no credibility except with the dying, angry white men that watch him.  He'll have no effect on the chances of any of those women you note, because his loyal viewers ain't voting for any Dem, be they black, white, male or female.  If Oprah or Obama or Warren were to run and lose, they'd lose on their own merits.  Warren isn't winning the presidency.  I don't see Michelle Obama running for office for at least another five years, and then she'd run for some congressional seat.  Oprah...she's liked or loved by tens of millions and not disliked by nearly the amount of people with hate or irritation toward Hillary or Warren.  That's not my prediction that she'd win.  I have no idea right now.  She'd beat Trump, as would have Bernie Sanders or Joe Biden.  Just today a female, died in the wool conservative voter in my office said she'd love for Oprah to run and that she'd vote for her in a heartbeat, as would her Repub voting husband.  My sister and her husband typically vote GOP.  They are slight right conservatives, who voted for McCain and Romney (but they didn't mind or hate Obama), but sat out rather than vote for Trump.  Sis wrote me today out of the blue to say she hopes Oprah runs cuz she and my brother in law will vote for her.

    I don't know that Oprah is a "public servant" so much as there's a perception of her (rightly or wrongly) as being a very charitable and giving kind of person who has gone great lengths for the public good.  Maybe she's not, but you know how the old saying goes...."Perception is reality."  So if people think her a giving and charitable person, then that's what she is until something or someone proves otherwise.  Maybe she'd release tax returns that show she's not, or that she is.  I suspect we'd find she's involved anonymously in a lot of things that serve a greater good.  Not that that matters anymore.  Didn't matter that Trump was able to be shown as using his charities for personal gain.


    Last edited by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:28 pm

    alohafri wrote:And I understand that you are agreeing with me on the candidates from Hollywood, so I'm not arguing with you. I'm just on my soapbox. I hate that the American people have become so stupid to believe that experience means nothing. "If you are a lifelong businessman, you should be able to just slide into a teaching job. You don't need any training for that. Your experiences in business should be all you need." "Oh, you have run a business? That's exactly like running the federal government. You should be president." I wonder how many people think the same thing when it comes to someone to build their home, fix their teeth, or perform surgery on a loved one.

    After 19 yrs of banter, Kev, I know you aren't "arguing with me."  We both want to see an experienced statesperson running this country.  We don't have that right now.  Granted, we want different things out of that statesperson from one another, but we can all agree that the current option isn't working out so well.
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by blondy28 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:49 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:And I understand that you are agreeing with me on the candidates from Hollywood, so I'm not arguing with you. I'm just on my soapbox. I hate that the American people have become so stupid to believe that experience means nothing. "If you are a lifelong businessman, you should be able to just slide into a teaching job. You don't need any training for that. Your experiences in business should be all you need." "Oh, you have run a business? That's exactly like running the federal government. You should be president." I wonder how many people think the same thing when it comes to someone to build their home, fix their teeth, or perform surgery on a loved one.

    After 19 yrs of banter, Kev, I know you aren't "arguing with me."  We both want to see an experienced statesperson running this country.  We don't have that right now.  Granted, we want different things out of that statesperson from one another, but we can all agree that the current option isn't working out so well.

    I actually saw Oprah's speech live, but my ambien had kicked in, so I honestly don't remember a minute of it, and I haven't revisited it yet...although I do plan to.  All that being said...I generally agree with experience being important.  I don't actually think Reagan's experience with SAG would qualify, IMO.  But I can also say this...I think the "unqualified", inexperienced Al Franken was one of the most effective Democratic senators we've seen in a long time.  Further, Sarah Palin sure checks all those boxes in terms of experience.  Local, state, etc.  and Oprah would wipe the floor with her...and rightfully so.  So yes, ideally you have a candidate that checks all the boxes, but that's a rare bread...so you're left with adding up the boxes that are checked.  In MANY cases (not all), Oprah comes out ahead on many people's scorecards.
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:44 pm

    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:And I understand that you are agreeing with me on the candidates from Hollywood, so I'm not arguing with you. I'm just on my soapbox. I hate that the American people have become so stupid to believe that experience means nothing. "If you are a lifelong businessman, you should be able to just slide into a teaching job. You don't need any training for that. Your experiences in business should be all you need." "Oh, you have run a business? That's exactly like running the federal government. You should be president." I wonder how many people think the same thing when it comes to someone to build their home, fix their teeth, or perform surgery on a loved one.

    After 19 yrs of banter, Kev, I know you aren't "arguing with me."  We both want to see an experienced statesperson running this country.  We don't have that right now.  Granted, we want different things out of that statesperson from one another, but we can all agree that the current option isn't working out so well.

    I actually saw Oprah's speech live, but my ambien had kicked in, so I honestly don't remember a minute of it, and I haven't revisited it yet...although I do plan to.  All that being said...I generally agree with experience being important.  I don't actually think Reagan's experience with SAG would qualify, IMO.  But I can also say this...I think the "unqualified", inexperienced Al Franken was one of the most effective Democratic senators we've seen in a long time.  Further, Sarah Palin sure checks all those boxes in terms of experience.  Local, state, etc.  and Oprah would wipe the floor with her...and rightfully so.  So yes, ideally you have a candidate that checks all the boxes, but that's a rare bread...so you're left with adding up the boxes that are checked.  In MANY cases (not all), Oprah comes out ahead on many people's scorecards.

    Some of the boxes that need to be checked are boxes that are not necessarily related to prior political experience, such as having the right attitude, being willing to work your ass off for the common good, having thick skin, being charitable and/or compassionate, being a good communicator, being organized and a go-getting.  People like Oprah, or Reagan or Mark Cuban appear to have those skills and many more, without necessarily possessing the political background.  If Oprah runs and wins, I expect we'll get a pretty solid number of stateswomanly years out of her.  Whether she's an effective president....who knows?
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by blondy28 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:40 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:And I understand that you are agreeing with me on the candidates from Hollywood, so I'm not arguing with you. I'm just on my soapbox. I hate that the American people have become so stupid to believe that experience means nothing. "If you are a lifelong businessman, you should be able to just slide into a teaching job. You don't need any training for that. Your experiences in business should be all you need." "Oh, you have run a business? That's exactly like running the federal government. You should be president." I wonder how many people think the same thing when it comes to someone to build their home, fix their teeth, or perform surgery on a loved one.

    After 19 yrs of banter, Kev, I know you aren't "arguing with me."  We both want to see an experienced statesperson running this country.  We don't have that right now.  Granted, we want different things out of that statesperson from one another, but we can all agree that the current option isn't working out so well.

    I actually saw Oprah's speech live, but my ambien had kicked in, so I honestly don't remember a minute of it, and I haven't revisited it yet...although I do plan to.  All that being said...I generally agree with experience being important.  I don't actually think Reagan's experience with SAG would qualify, IMO.  But I can also say this...I think the "unqualified", inexperienced Al Franken was one of the most effective Democratic senators we've seen in a long time.  Further, Sarah Palin sure checks all those boxes in terms of experience.  Local, state, etc.  and Oprah would wipe the floor with her...and rightfully so.  So yes, ideally you have a candidate that checks all the boxes, but that's a rare bread...so you're left with adding up the boxes that are checked.  In MANY cases (not all), Oprah comes out ahead on many people's scorecards.

    Some of the boxes that need to be checked are boxes that are not necessarily related to prior political experience, such as having the right attitude, being willing to work your ass off for the common good, having thick skin, being charitable and/or compassionate, being a good communicator, being organized and a go-getting.  People like Oprah, or Reagan or Mark Cuban appear to have those skills and many more, without necessarily possessing the political background.  If Oprah runs and wins, I expect we'll get a pretty solid number of stateswomanly years out of her.  Whether she's an effective president....who knows?

    Exactly.  If you check the "political experience" box and nothing else, what's the point?  I mean, technically, I have political experience.  My job is the lowest level of government there is...managing community associations.  We have laws and we have elections and we have budgets and we conduct meetings using parliamentary procedure, etc.  Doesn't make me qualified to be dog catcher.  I just watched Oprah's speech, and it was truly amazing.  Inspiring.  At the same time, I could hear Rush Limbaugh breaking it apart piece by piece...Hollywood hypocrites...anti-men, etc.  As much as the rank and file GOP hates Trump's over-the-top tasteless rhetoric, what they would hate more is someone coming from the left with rhetoric reflecting decency.  They want their own Oprah...their own Obama...someone whose words of hope and decency resonate.  But without that, their job is to shoot down anyone from the left who has it.  They thought Palin was that person...she resonated.  Then she was exposed for the moron she is.
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by sharpy on Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:17 pm

    Electing Oprah Winfrey as president will just continue the downward slide of America the country. Reagan was the "great communicator" and a terrible president who started the destruction of the middle class that continues to this day - with no end in sight.  Owing a business and being a business leader is akin to being a dictator - negotiations and compromise aren't part of the deal when you are CEO - you do what you want to do. She'd be a great social democrat - civil right for gays, pro-choice, civil rights, affirmative action, Medicaid, Medicare increase and equality for woman and all that. - Does she have ANY clue of how to achieve even ONE of those goals? With the courts stacked against her? with no guarantee of a House or a Senate in her corner?  It's unfortunate that the Presidency of this country has come down to being equivalent to voting for Prom Queen and King....nation wide popularity contest. And I'm not sure I see where she gets the votes. especially in the south, Pa, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, etc .. I think she'd have had a better chance running in 2016 rather than 2020 - 
    I know it seems that everyone is all excited about the #timesup movement, women power, etc and I'm all for it and hope many more get elected and come into power - BUT, my concern is that outside of California, NYC, Boston, Chicago, Seattle, Portland ...how much of the rest of the country is having the same religious experience over the movement?   Unless someone can change my mind, I still think the best chance the democrats have in winning 2020 is Joe Biden (health assumed) and the best chance for women is a female vice-president candidate who then runs following Bidens' one term presidency (provided she doesn't do stupid things like Hilary did). 
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by alohafri on Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:44 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:And I understand that you are agreeing with me on the candidates from Hollywood, so I'm not arguing with you. I'm just on my soapbox. I hate that the American people have become so stupid to believe that experience means nothing. "If you are a lifelong businessman, you should be able to just slide into a teaching job. You don't need any training for that. Your experiences in business should be all you need." "Oh, you have run a business? That's exactly like running the federal government. You should be president." I wonder how many people think the same thing when it comes to someone to build their home, fix their teeth, or perform surgery on a loved one.

    After 19 yrs of banter, Kev, I know you aren't "arguing with me."  We both want to see an experienced statesperson running this country.  We don't have that right now.  Granted, we want different things out of that statesperson from one another, but we can all agree that the current option isn't working out so well.

    We likely do want some different things out of that statesperson. However, a true statesperson is doing to do what is right for the country, the base be damned.
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by alohafri on Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:51 pm

    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:And I understand that you are agreeing with me on the candidates from Hollywood, so I'm not arguing with you. I'm just on my soapbox. I hate that the American people have become so stupid to believe that experience means nothing. "If you are a lifelong businessman, you should be able to just slide into a teaching job. You don't need any training for that. Your experiences in business should be all you need." "Oh, you have run a business? That's exactly like running the federal government. You should be president." I wonder how many people think the same thing when it comes to someone to build their home, fix their teeth, or perform surgery on a loved one.
    After 19 yrs of banter, Kev, I know you aren't "arguing with me."  We both want to see an experienced statesperson running this country.  We don't have that right now.  Granted, we want different things out of that statesperson from one another, but we can all agree that the current option isn't working out so well.

    I actually saw Oprah's speech live, but my ambien had kicked in, so I honestly don't remember a minute of it, and I haven't revisited it yet...although I do plan to.  All that being said...I generally agree with experience being important.  I don't actually think Reagan's experience with SAG would qualify, IMO.  But I can also say this...I think the "unqualified", inexperienced Al Franken was one of the most effective Democratic senators we've seen in a long time.  Further, Sarah Palin sure checks all those boxes in terms of experience.  Local, state, etc.  and Oprah would wipe the floor with her...and rightfully so.  So yes, ideally you have a candidate that checks all the boxes, but that's a rare bread...so you're left with adding up the boxes that are checked.  In MANY cases (not all), Oprah comes out ahead on many people's scorecards.

    Al Franken didn't start out at the "top". He became a senator. He wasn't the first politician who started out in the senate. To use your word, Al Franken was "qualified" as he was over 30, a citizen for over 9 years, and a resident of Minnesota. Learning on the job as a senator is much different from learning on the job as the President. And really? You are going to use Sarah Palin as an example? I have dog turds in my back yard that would make a better President than Sarah Palin. Why didn't you just say Michele Bachmann?  tongue


    I count Reagan's experience in the SAG because he was the elected president of a large (small d) democratic body.
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by alohafri on Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:54 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:And I understand that you are agreeing with me on the candidates from Hollywood, so I'm not arguing with you. I'm just on my soapbox. I hate that the American people have become so stupid to believe that experience means nothing. "If you are a lifelong businessman, you should be able to just slide into a teaching job. You don't need any training for that. Your experiences in business should be all you need." "Oh, you have run a business? That's exactly like running the federal government. You should be president." I wonder how many people think the same thing when it comes to someone to build their home, fix their teeth, or perform surgery on a loved one.

    After 19 yrs of banter, Kev, I know you aren't "arguing with me."  We both want to see an experienced statesperson running this country.  We don't have that right now.  Granted, we want different things out of that statesperson from one another, but we can all agree that the current option isn't working out so well.

    I actually saw Oprah's speech live, but my ambien had kicked in, so I honestly don't remember a minute of it, and I haven't revisited it yet...although I do plan to.  All that being said...I generally agree with experience being important.  I don't actually think Reagan's experience with SAG would qualify, IMO.  But I can also say this...I think the "unqualified", inexperienced Al Franken was one of the most effective Democratic senators we've seen in a long time.  Further, Sarah Palin sure checks all those boxes in terms of experience.  Local, state, etc.  and Oprah would wipe the floor with her...and rightfully so.  So yes, ideally you have a candidate that checks all the boxes, but that's a rare bread...so you're left with adding up the boxes that are checked.  In MANY cases (not all), Oprah comes out ahead on many people's scorecards.

    Some of the boxes that need to be checked are boxes that are not necessarily related to prior political experience, such as having the right attitude, being willing to work your ass off for the common good, having thick skin, being charitable and/or compassionate, being a good communicator, being organized and a go-getting.  People like Oprah, or Reagan or Mark Cuban appear to have those skills and many more, without necessarily possessing the political background.  If Oprah runs and wins, I expect we'll get a pretty solid number of stateswomanly years out of her.  Whether she's an effective president....who knows?

    We're already a laughing stock on the world stage. Can you imagine if the wagon of fat or the Tom Cruise jumping on the couch tapes get released before the G8 Summit?
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:17 pm

    sharpy wrote:Electing Oprah Winfrey as president will just continue the downward slide of America the country. Reagan was the "great communicator" and a terrible president who started the destruction of the middle class that continues to this day - with no end in sight.  Owing a business and being a business leader is akin to being a dictator - negotiations and compromise aren't part of the deal when you are CEO - you do what you want to do. She'd be a great social democrat - civil right for gays, pro-choice, civil rights, affirmative action, Medicaid, Medicare increase and equality for woman and all that. - Does she have ANY clue of how to achieve even ONE of those goals? With the courts stacked against her? with no guarantee of a House or a Senate in her corner?  It's unfortunate that the Presidency of this country has come down to being equivalent to voting for Prom Queen and King....nation wide popularity contest. And I'm not sure I see where she gets the votes. especially in the south, Pa, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, etc .. I think she'd have had a better chance running in 2016 rather than 2020 - 
    I know it seems that everyone is all excited about the #timesup movement, women power, etc and I'm all for it and hope many more get elected and come into power - BUT, my concern is that outside of California, NYC, Boston, Chicago, Seattle, Portland ...how much of the rest of the country is having the same religious experience over the movement?   Unless someone can change my mind, I still think the best chance the democrats have in winning 2020 is Joe Biden (health assumed) and the best chance for women is a female vice-president candidate who then runs following Bidens' one term presidency (provided she doesn't do stupid things like Hilary did). 

    Tim, I think you're underestimating the kind of support Winfrey could possibly garner.  She would own the black vote, obviously.  She would do well with liberals and registered Dems.  I suspect where she might get her push is from women who are in that middle 25%, who aren't really libs or conservatives.  Women like her.  Women love her.  I know there are plenty of guys that are unimpressed by her, but many are impressed.  I'm not bringing this up because I'm sitting here thinking "Hey, Oprah needs to run!  She'd win!"  I don't necessarily think that, unless her opponent is Trump or Ted Cruz.  I'm only saying that I'm not as aware of the kind of negative opposition against her the way there was for Hillary.  Shit, when my wife heard today that Oprah might run, I've never seen her more excited.  My wife couldn't give less of a shit about any of this stuff if she tried, but she and her centrist sister and Repub voting mom were all discussing this today how they really hope she runs and that they'd all run to vote for her.  Unless there is some kind of huge skeleton in her closet, she's pretty renowned for her charity work and for being a great communicator.  Thusly, I suspect she'd have a chance to win.  Similarly, I had many acquaintances that would have voted for Sanders over Trump, but not Hillary over Trump.  Many of these dudes are usually GOP voters, but they liked Bernie.  

    All that said, I don't see her running.  Can't imagine that she'll want to deal with it.  Maybe she'd see it as a way to seal her legacy, but I just don't see it.  

    Tim, you mention that she'd likely not know how to accomplish her goals.  Can anyone really accomplish goals at this point?  With the money in politics now, and how it rules, there is no fear by congressmen who vote against the strong wishes of their constituents, because their bigger fear is the loss of funds from the donors.  Without a majority in both halves of Congress, and a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, how is anyone going to accomplish anything anymore?  If the Dems grab the house in 2016, all further legislation will cease.  The only way Trump can do anything at this point will be to keep finding ways around the filibuster with reconciliation bills, or for the Senate to dump the filibuster altogether.  Same will be the case with President Oprah, or Kasich, or Booker, or Sasse.  The well has been poisoned with the obstruction during Obama's years, including the blocking of the Garland appointment.  Until McConnell is gone, the Dems will not give an inch, and frankly I don't blame them.  I doubt you blame them, either.  

    I look at Winfrey this way.  She's a very nice and likable person.  In many ways, she's achieved greatness in almost all aspects of her life and her endeavors.  If she were to run and win, she'd likely immediately put on a very serious and stateswomanly face and take it as seriously as a heart attack.  None of this means she's a great candidate for president, but she might surprise us.  If she has any negative traits, I am unaware of them.  Yes, she's had a show with some goofy assed moments, but not goofy in an unethical, bad character type of way.  9 times out of 10, doesn't the public vote for the person that's most likable?  I can almost see her running and grabbing a Repub VP candidate...someone a bit on the moderate side, like a Susan Collins or a Lisa Murkowski or a Nikki Haley.  She's not the most predictable person.  I just think you're underestimating her a bit.  

    I do hope Biden runs and is the candidate.  Maybe Biden, promising to only serve a single term, and running with a VP like Gillibrand under the idea that she'd try carrying the ball after he's done.


    Last edited by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:22 pm

    alohafri wrote:


    We're already a laughing stock on the world stage. Can you imagine if the wagon of fat or the Tom Cruise jumping on the couch tapes get released before the G8 Summit?

    How or why would this even matter?  Compared to what we have now, this is a non-event.  We live in a new world now, where your past isn't really any big deal.  Character used to matter.  It used to matter if you had some kind of embarrassing episode in your past.  Now, none of this shit matters.  Wagon of fat.  Tom Cruise on the couch.  There used to be rumors that she and her friend Gayle were gay.  Not sure any of that is even worth mentioning anymore.  The biggest and best argument against her will just be that she has no political experience, but even that seems to not matter anymore.  What a crazy world we live in.
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by alohafri on Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:06 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:


    We're already a laughing stock on the world stage. Can you imagine if the wagon of fat or the Tom Cruise jumping on the couch tapes get released before the G8 Summit?

    How or why would this even matter?  Compared to what we have now, this is a non-event.  We live in a new world now, where your past isn't really any big deal.  Character used to matter.  It used to matter if you had some kind of embarrassing episode in your past.  Now, none of this shit matters.  Wagon of fat.  Tom Cruise on the couch.  There used to be rumors that she and her friend Gayle were gay.  Not sure any of that is even worth mentioning anymore.  The biggest and best argument against her will just be that she has no political experience, but even that seems to not matter anymore.  What a crazy world we live in.

    Honestly the only ones taking this issue seriously are the dopes on Fox News. 
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by blondy28 on Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:08 am

    alohafri wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:And I understand that you are agreeing with me on the candidates from Hollywood, so I'm not arguing with you. I'm just on my soapbox. I hate that the American people have become so stupid to believe that experience means nothing. "If you are a lifelong businessman, you should be able to just slide into a teaching job. You don't need any training for that. Your experiences in business should be all you need." "Oh, you have run a business? That's exactly like running the federal government. You should be president." I wonder how many people think the same thing when it comes to someone to build their home, fix their teeth, or perform surgery on a loved one.
    After 19 yrs of banter, Kev, I know you aren't "arguing with me."  We both want to see an experienced statesperson running this country.  We don't have that right now.  Granted, we want different things out of that statesperson from one another, but we can all agree that the current option isn't working out so well.

    I actually saw Oprah's speech live, but my ambien had kicked in, so I honestly don't remember a minute of it, and I haven't revisited it yet...although I do plan to.  All that being said...I generally agree with experience being important.  I don't actually think Reagan's experience with SAG would qualify, IMO.  But I can also say this...I think the "unqualified", inexperienced Al Franken was one of the most effective Democratic senators we've seen in a long time.  Further, Sarah Palin sure checks all those boxes in terms of experience.  Local, state, etc.  and Oprah would wipe the floor with her...and rightfully so.  So yes, ideally you have a candidate that checks all the boxes, but that's a rare bread...so you're left with adding up the boxes that are checked.  In MANY cases (not all), Oprah comes out ahead on many people's scorecards.

    Al Franken didn't start out at the "top". He became a senator. He wasn't the first politician who started out in the senate. To use your word, Al Franken was "qualified" as he was over 30, a citizen for over 9 years, and a resident of Minnesota. Learning on the job as a senator is much different from learning on the job as the President. And really? You are going to use Sarah Palin as an example? I have dog turds in my back yard that would make a better President than Sarah Palin. Why didn't you just say Michele Bachmann?  tongue


    I count Reagan's experience in the SAG because he was the elected president of a large (small d) democratic body.

    I think you realize that there's more to being "qualified" than meeting baseline criteria...or at the very least, you understand that I wasn't using the word in that way.  And yes, we're talking about Oprah, but you used examples of folks that weren't president (Jesse Ventura), so it appeared that you extended the discussion beyond the president, so I included Franken in the discussion.  Certainly, you must remember the Fox folks questioning his qualifications to be senator because until he ran, he was "just a comedy writer".
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:09 am

    alohafri wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:


    We're already a laughing stock on the world stage. Can you imagine if the wagon of fat or the Tom Cruise jumping on the couch tapes get released before the G8 Summit?

    How or why would this even matter?  Compared to what we have now, this is a non-event.  We live in a new world now, where your past isn't really any big deal.  Character used to matter.  It used to matter if you had some kind of embarrassing episode in your past.  Now, none of this shit matters.  Wagon of fat.  Tom Cruise on the couch.  There used to be rumors that she and her friend Gayle were gay.  Not sure any of that is even worth mentioning anymore.  The biggest and best argument against her will just be that she has no political experience, but even that seems to not matter anymore.  What a crazy world we live in.

    Honestly the only ones taking this issue seriously are the dopes on Fox News. 

    I suspect the chances of her tossing her hat in the ring and going through the whole Dem primary/debate process are about 5%.  I'm glad Fox is taking it seriously.  Maybe it gives Hillary a couple days of peace.
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by blondy28 on Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:20 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    sharpy wrote:Electing Oprah Winfrey as president will just continue the downward slide of America the country. Reagan was the "great communicator" and a terrible president who started the destruction of the middle class that continues to this day - with no end in sight.  Owing a business and being a business leader is akin to being a dictator - negotiations and compromise aren't part of the deal when you are CEO - you do what you want to do. She'd be a great social democrat - civil right for gays, pro-choice, civil rights, affirmative action, Medicaid, Medicare increase and equality for woman and all that. - Does she have ANY clue of how to achieve even ONE of those goals? With the courts stacked against her? with no guarantee of a House or a Senate in her corner?  It's unfortunate that the Presidency of this country has come down to being equivalent to voting for Prom Queen and King....nation wide popularity contest. And I'm not sure I see where she gets the votes. especially in the south, Pa, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, etc .. I think she'd have had a better chance running in 2016 rather than 2020 - 
    I know it seems that everyone is all excited about the #timesup movement, women power, etc and I'm all for it and hope many more get elected and come into power - BUT, my concern is that outside of California, NYC, Boston, Chicago, Seattle, Portland ...how much of the rest of the country is having the same religious experience over the movement?   Unless someone can change my mind, I still think the best chance the democrats have in winning 2020 is Joe Biden (health assumed) and the best chance for women is a female vice-president candidate who then runs following Bidens' one term presidency (provided she doesn't do stupid things like Hilary did). 

    Tim, I think you're underestimating the kind of support Winfrey could possibly garner.  She would own the black vote, obviously.  She would do well with liberals and registered Dems.  I suspect where she might get her push is from women who are in that middle 25%, who aren't really libs or conservatives.  Women like her.  Women love her.  I know there are plenty of guys that are unimpressed by her, but many are impressed.  I'm not bringing this up because I'm sitting here thinking "Hey, Oprah needs to run!  She'd win!"  I don't necessarily think that, unless her opponent is Trump or Ted Cruz.  I'm only saying that I'm not as aware of the kind of negative opposition against her the way there was for Hillary.  Shit, when my wife heard today that Oprah might run, I've never seen her more excited.  My wife couldn't give less of a shit about any of this stuff if she tried, but she and her centrist sister and Repub voting mom were all discussing this today how they really hope she runs and that they'd all run to vote for her.  Unless there is some kind of huge skeleton in her closet, she's pretty renowned for her charity work and for being a great communicator.  Thusly, I suspect she'd have a chance to win.  Similarly, I had many acquaintances that would have voted for Sanders over Trump, but not Hillary over Trump.  Many of these dudes are usually GOP voters, but they liked Bernie.  

    All that said, I don't see her running.  Can't imagine that she'll want to deal with it.  Maybe she'd see it as a way to seal her legacy, but I just don't see it.  

    Tim, you mention that she'd likely not know how to accomplish her goals.  Can anyone really accomplish goals at this point?  With the money in politics now, and how it rules, there is no fear by congressmen who vote against the strong wishes of their constituents, because their bigger fear is the loss of funds from the donors.  Without a majority in both halves of Congress, and a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, how is anyone going to accomplish anything anymore?  If the Dems grab the house in 2016, all further legislation will cease.  The only way Trump can do anything at this point will be to keep finding ways around the filibuster with reconciliation bills, or for the Senate to dump the filibuster altogether.  Same will be the case with President Oprah, or Kasich, or Booker, or Sasse.  The well has been poisoned with the obstruction during Obama's years, including the blocking of the Garland appointment.  Until McConnell is gone, the Dems will not give an inch, and frankly I don't blame them.  I doubt you blame them, either.  

    I look at Winfrey this way.  She's a very nice and likable person.  In many ways, she's achieved greatness in almost all aspects of her life and her endeavors.  If she were to run and win, she'd likely immediately put on a very serious and stateswomanly face and take it as seriously as a heart attack.  None of this means she's a great candidate for president, but she might surprise us.  If she has any negative traits, I am unaware of them.  Yes, she's had a show with some goofy assed moments, but not goofy in an unethical, bad character type of way.  9 times out of 10, doesn't the public vote for the person that's most likable?  I can almost see her running and grabbing a Repub VP candidate...someone a bit on the moderate side, like a Susan Collins or a Lisa Murkowski or a Nikki Haley.  She's not the most predictable person.  I just think you're underestimating her a bit.  

    I do hope Biden runs and is the candidate.  Maybe Biden, promising to only serve a single term, and running with a VP like Gillibrand under the idea that she'd try carrying the ball after he's done.

    I think Oprah may also get the "God" vote.  No, not those who vote pro-life religiously (no pun intended), like the easily manipulated voting block that they are, but for those who think the Democrats are trying to get rid of religion, Oprah might get those votes that dems NEVER get.  Hell (again, no pun intended), she has a show called "Super Soul Sunday".  Sure, it's more about spirituality than religion, but she has no problem with talking about God in her life.  I think that gets her some votes, too.

    And I echo...I'm not calling for Oprah to run....just adding to the conversation of the hypothetical.  I adore Joe Biden and would love him to run.
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by alohafri on Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:28 am

    blondy28 wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:And I understand that you are agreeing with me on the candidates from Hollywood, so I'm not arguing with you. I'm just on my soapbox. I hate that the American people have become so stupid to believe that experience means nothing. "If you are a lifelong businessman, you should be able to just slide into a teaching job. You don't need any training for that. Your experiences in business should be all you need." "Oh, you have run a business? That's exactly like running the federal government. You should be president." I wonder how many people think the same thing when it comes to someone to build their home, fix their teeth, or perform surgery on a loved one.
    After 19 yrs of banter, Kev, I know you aren't "arguing with me."  We both want to see an experienced statesperson running this country.  We don't have that right now.  Granted, we want different things out of that statesperson from one another, but we can all agree that the current option isn't working out so well.

    I actually saw Oprah's speech live, but my ambien had kicked in, so I honestly don't remember a minute of it, and I haven't revisited it yet...although I do plan to.  All that being said...I generally agree with experience being important.  I don't actually think Reagan's experience with SAG would qualify, IMO.  But I can also say this...I think the "unqualified", inexperienced Al Franken was one of the most effective Democratic senators we've seen in a long time.  Further, Sarah Palin sure checks all those boxes in terms of experience.  Local, state, etc.  and Oprah would wipe the floor with her...and rightfully so.  So yes, ideally you have a candidate that checks all the boxes, but that's a rare bread...so you're left with adding up the boxes that are checked.  In MANY cases (not all), Oprah comes out ahead on many people's scorecards.

    Al Franken didn't start out at the "top". He became a senator. He wasn't the first politician who started out in the senate. To use your word, Al Franken was "qualified" as he was over 30, a citizen for over 9 years, and a resident of Minnesota. Learning on the job as a senator is much different from learning on the job as the President. And really? You are going to use Sarah Palin as an example? I have dog turds in my back yard that would make a better President than Sarah Palin. Why didn't you just say Michele Bachmann?  tongue


    I count Reagan's experience in the SAG because he was the elected president of a large (small d) democratic body.

    I think you realize that there's more to being "qualified" than meeting baseline criteria...or at the very least, you understand that I wasn't using the word in that way.  And yes, we're talking about Oprah, but you used examples of folks that weren't president (Jesse Ventura), so it appeared that you extended the discussion beyond the president, so I included Franken in the discussion.  Certainly, you must remember the Fox folks questioning his qualifications to be senator because until he ran, he was "just a comedy writer".

    My examples were meant to show that people don't start at the top. Make your bones at a lower level. You don't get to be head of a crime family without first doing a hit.
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    Re: Golden Globes

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:48 am

    Am I the only one that expects that if Biden gets the Dem nomination, he will spend the entire month of October 2020 defending against mysterious, anonymous allegations of groping, ala Al Franken?

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    Re: Golden Globes

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