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    Brewing Constitutional Crisis

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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:03 pm

    Maybe it's just me, but I think the Trumpsters are getting ready to fire Mueller.  Holy shit is it going to get ugly if that happens.  Ugly in ways we've never seen, and which history has rarely seen.  Seems that the complaining about Mueller on Fox on an endless cycle is the preface for the brewing end to the probe.  What power will the people have at that point?  Will be officially be a Banana Republic at that point?  An authoritarian regime?  Fascism?  If he fires Mueller, can he at that point do whatever he wants with impunity?  I would think.  Who can stop him?  Who WILL stop him?  Won't surprise me if he fires Mueller in the next week or two and pardons a few guys and declares the whole thing over and no findings of collusion (which might not even be illegal anyway).
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:00 am

    There is a clear and full-fledged delegitimization PR campaign going on against the Mueller investigation right now, so that if/when the Trumpers fire Mueller and cancel the investigation people will say "Yeah, it was probably about time to end it anyway."  

    I don't bring this up because I am of some belief that it's eventually going to lead to a downfall of Trump.  I'm completely in agreement with Cream on this in believing that it'll amount to nothing more than a bunch of smoke and some indictments for lying to the FBI by a few of the campaign staff.  Ain't no way that the GOP majorities will vote to dump this asshole.  If they do, the toothless crackpots that voted him into office will turn on them and vote for Tea Party candidates in primaries and turn over half of the party, if not the entire party.
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    sharpy
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by sharpy on Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:46 pm

    I agree....I've been waiting for the firing of Mueller for some time.  Then the coup will be complete and America will no longer be a country of laws.   And as you have pointed out, Gerrymandering will prevent the Democrats from winning the House or senate, pretty much forever - so lets see what happens in 2018 - if the GOP still owns the House and Senate, the American experiment if over and yes, we are a banana republic - there will be no 2000 elections b/c of the "fake votes" that have ruined the previous elections (its for our own good and once we are sure, we can have elections again)  ...but of course, I over react and all of this will pass b/c it can't happen in the USA- 
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:45 pm

    sharpy wrote:I agree....I've been waiting for the firing of Mueller for some time.  Then the coup will be complete and America will no longer be a country of laws.   And as you have pointed out, Gerrymandering will prevent the Democrats from winning the House or senate, pretty much forever - so lets see what happens in 2018 - if the GOP still owns the House and Senate, the American experiment if over and yes, we are a banana republic - there will be no 2000 elections b/c of the "fake votes" that have ruined the previous elections (its for our own good and once we are sure, we can have elections again)  ...but of course, I over react and all of this will pass b/c it can't happen in the USA- 

    I believe we're getting to a point where it's not a country of laws unless you're on the side of the administration.  Sessions lied flat out to congress how many times?  How has he not been forced to resign?  Or charged for perjury?  If Trump finds a way to undo and end this investigation, is he at that point under no further scrutiny from anyone?  If he can fire the those investigating him, what accountability even remains?  Can he murder someone?  If so, who charges him?  Can he fire that person?  Seems to me that things are getting a little loose and free.  

    Not sure I'm on board for there to be no election in 2020, but at this point I suppose nothing surprises me.  Shit, if such a thing occurred, and the Dems tried fighting it all the way up the ladder to SCOTUS, do I believe they'll rule against a Republican president?  Not really.
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    blondy28
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by blondy28 on Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:40 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    sharpy wrote:I agree....I've been waiting for the firing of Mueller for some time.  Then the coup will be complete and America will no longer be a country of laws.   And as you have pointed out, Gerrymandering will prevent the Democrats from winning the House or senate, pretty much forever - so lets see what happens in 2018 - if the GOP still owns the House and Senate, the American experiment if over and yes, we are a banana republic - there will be no 2000 elections b/c of the "fake votes" that have ruined the previous elections (its for our own good and once we are sure, we can have elections again)  ...but of course, I over react and all of this will pass b/c it can't happen in the USA- 

    I believe we're getting to a point where it's not a country of laws unless you're on the side of the administration.  Sessions lied flat out to congress how many times?  How has he not been forced to resign?  Or charged for perjury?  If Trump finds a way to undo and end this investigation, is he at that point under no further scrutiny from anyone?  If he can fire the those investigating him, what accountability even remains?  Can he murder someone?  If so, who charges him?  Can he fire that person?  Seems to me that things are getting a little loose and free.  

    Not sure I'm on board for there to be no election in 2020, but at this point I suppose nothing surprises me.  Shit, if such a thing occurred, and the Dems tried fighting it all the way up the ladder to SCOTUS, do I believe they'll rule against a Republican president?  Not really.

    The right wing rhetoric ramped up over the weekend.  Now they just don't need to be fired...they need to be arrested.  They're starting a "drain the swamp" campaign, and these hill rods who put Trump and the rest of those crooks in office are too damned stupid to see that the swamp is dirtier and full of my alligators than it ever was.   As bad as I thought a Trump administration would be, it's been about 100 times worse.
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    sharpy
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by sharpy on Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:03 pm

    The right wing rhetoric ramped up over the weekend.  Now they just don't need to be fired...they need to be arrested.

    The $64k question has always been, arrested by whom?  Certainly Penis Paul and Mitch aren't going to do it. Not sure any police organization has the power to arrest the president...does the FBI? Without permission of the justice department?  Kind of a fool proof plan by bannon and friends 

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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by frank bonifacic on Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:18 pm

    sharpy wrote:The right wing rhetoric ramped up over the weekend.  Now they just don't need to be fired...they need to be arrested.

    The $64k question has always been, arrested by whom?  Certainly Penis Paul and Mitch aren't going to do it. Not sure any police organization has the power to arrest the president...does the FBI? Without permission of the justice department?  Kind of a fool proof plan by bannon and friends 
    Think you missed this one, Tim. Right wingers want Mueller and his crew arrested.
    They will stoop to anything to get their point across-lies are meaningless.
    No intérêst in news- just promote their agenda,


    This crap in alabama. The woman says she added date and place and they scream she admitted forgery. I thought Shelby's comment about not voting for Moore was weak and meaningless, but read today that Alabama Republicans have a rule that anybody that supports a Dem can't run as a Repub. ( maybe the shouldn't bother shelby as he WAS a democrat.)
    Think he should have just said " Great, throw me out. one less Repub vote.


    As an aside , heard the most interesting thing about these women who have accused Moore is that NONE of them were relatives!!


    As they say " a virgin in Alabama is a girl who can outrun her brothers!!"   
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    sharpy
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by sharpy on Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:57 pm

    Think you missed this one, Tim. Right wingers want Mueller and his crew arrested.
    They will stoop to anything to get their point across-lies are meaningless.
    No intérêst in news- just promote their agenda,

    Youre right , I totally missed it ...they want Mueller arrested??  good god...if that happens, then we are in more trouble than even I thought we were. 
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:00 pm

    Lots of insider talk (for whatever the fuck that's worth) that a few days after the tax measure is passed, Trump will fire the Mueller team, after his propaganda arm has been chiming incessantly for about 3 weeks about how corrupt the investigation is.  If this happens, I wonder how big of a national clusterfuck that'll be.  Something like this happening would possibly push the public into mass protest, along with some violence and rebellion.  After that, Mr. Authoritarian can declare Marshall Law and turn the military loose.  

    I'm not predicting all of that, mind you, but firing Mueller would be the kind of event that could possibly flip that switch that leads to some of what Cream has been suggesting for a couple of years.  That, combined with the passing of a bill that's going to help make millionaires into billionaires and billionaires into trillionaires, along with concentrating wealth and power inside of a small handful of families (monarchy style) could lead to some unhappy people in the streets that figure now that they feel powerless in this governmental structure, they're at liberty to start shooting and burning shit.  Didn't we have some kind of a rebellion back around 1776 when people felt they had no power and got tired of being ruled by a monarchy?  Trying to remember how that turned out.  I believe something like that happened in France, too.
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    sharpy
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by sharpy on Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:06 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Lots of insider talk (for whatever the fuck that's worth) that a few days after the tax measure is passed, Trump will fire the Mueller team, after his propaganda arm has been chiming incessantly for about 3 weeks about how corrupt the investigation is.  If this happens, I wonder how big of a national clusterfuck that'll be.  Something like this happening would possibly push the public into mass protest, along with some violence and rebellion.  After that, Mr. Authoritarian can declare Marshall Law and turn the military loose.  

    I'm not predicting all of that, mind you, but firing Mueller would be the kind of event that could possibly flip that switch that leads to some of what Cream has been suggesting for a couple of years.  That, combined with the passing of a bill that's going to help make millionaires into billionaires and billionaires into trillionaires, along with concentrating wealth and power inside of a small handful of families (monarchy style) could lead to some unhappy people in the streets that figure now that they feel powerless in this governmental structure, they're at liberty to start shooting and burning shit.  Didn't we have some kind of a rebellion back around 1776 when people felt they had no power and got tired of being ruled by a monarchy?  Trying to remember how that turned out.  I believe something like that happened in France, too.


    Kinda all comes down to what side the generals take, doesn't it? 
    You're starting to sound like a reactionary and histrionic.  
    Does constitutional crisis lead to an end of democracy and our nation? 
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    cream919
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by cream919 on Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:36 pm

    "Won't Get Fooled Again"

    We'll be fighting in the streets
    With our children at our feet
    And the morals that they worship will be gone
    And the men who spurred us on
    Sit in judgement of all wrong
    They decide and the shotgun sings the song

    I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
    Take a bow for the new revolution
    Smile and grin at the change all around
    Pick up my guitar and play
    Just like yesterday
    Then I'll get on my knees and pray
    We don't get fooled again

    The change, it had to come
    We knew it all along
    We were liberated from the fold, that's all
    And the world looks just the same
    And history ain't changed
    'Cause the banners, they are flown in the last war

    I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
    Take a bow for the new revolution
    Smile and grin at the change all around
    Pick up my guitar and play
    Just like yesterday
    Then I'll get on my knees and pray
    We don't get fooled again
    No, no!

    I'll move myself and my family aside
    If we happen to be left half alive
    I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
    Oh I know that the hypnotized never lie
    Do ya?

    There's nothing in the streets
    Looks any different to me
    And the slogans are replaced, by the bye
    And a parting on the left
    Is now a parting on the right
    And the beards have all grown longer overnight

    I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
    Take a bow for the new revolution
    Smile and grin at the change all around
    Pick up my guitar and play
    Just like yesterday
    Then I'll get on my knees and pray
    We don't get fooled again
    Don't get fooled again
    No, no!

    Meet the new boss
    Same as the old boss
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:06 pm

    sharpy wrote:

    Kinda all comes down to what side the generals take, doesn't it? 
    You're starting to sound like a reactionary and histrionic.  
    Does constitutional crisis lead to an end of democracy and our nation? 

    LOL.  Hopefully not.  There's a little part of my tiny brain that remains hopeful and idealistic that cooler and smarter heads will prevail.  Of course, I thought maybe one or two members of the GOP would decide against doing what the donor money wants and just flat out say "I'm not going to vote for this tax bill until it's balanced against the deficit and doesn't seem like such a blatant giveaway to the aristocracy."  I was pretty sure that Collins, or Murkowski, or McCain would at least hold firm and say they're fine with a tax reform for corporations in this country, but not with what's a clear transfer of wealth to the already rich.  I know for certain that they are against that bill in principle, but don't dare vote against it because the donor money has told them they'll take it out on the entire party if it's not passed.  There's no way they actually support a bill that blows up the deficit that badly and so openly pays the rich without there being another motive.  
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    sharpy
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by sharpy on Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:58 pm

    Heard McCain wasn't going to vote ..didn't hear why...his health? 
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:46 pm

    sharpy wrote:Heard McCain wasn't going to vote ..didn't hear why...his health? 

    Yes.  Weak from undergoing whatever cancer treatments they are giving him.
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by cream919 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:56 pm

    I was always under the assumption that in such instances, provided the individual is of sound mind, that a vote could be cast in absentia. Guess not.

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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by frank bonifacic on Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:13 am

    cream919 wrote:I was always under the assumption that in such instances, provided the individual is of sound mind, that a vote could be cast in absentia. Guess not.
    If that was the case, only a couple of assholes from each party would show up-and just for photo-ops!
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:54 am

    Found this pretty powerful and worth a short viewing.  By David Frum, former GWB speechwriter and fairly notable conservative.  

    https://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/515082/can-it-happen-here/
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    cream919
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by cream919 on Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:40 pm

    Actually I was referring where it might allow for something like being ill or a family emergency...in short legitimate and verifiable reasons.
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by cream919 on Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:45 pm

    Wow Rob, you're finding "powerful viewing" in what some conservative political wag is spouting off about and I've been saying the same shit for over 5 years! What am I? Chopped liver?  Mad

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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by frank bonifacic on Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:28 am

    cream919 wrote:Actually I was referring where it might allow for something like being ill or a family emergency...in short legitimate and verifiable reasons.
    I knew what you were referring to, but how long do you think it would take them to include the flu, colds, sniffles and sunburn as reasons to stay home?
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by cream919 on Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:36 pm

    Such a cynic Frank. You actually question the motivations of our beloved leaders?
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:56 am

    cream919 wrote:Wow Rob, you're finding "powerful viewing" in what some conservative political wag is spouting off about and I've been saying the same shit for over 5 years! What am I? Chopped liver?  Mad

    I've made, I believe, fair reference to you and spouting in recent posts about this topic and a few others.  Yes, you've been saying it fairly loudly, in fact.  You and Tim and occasionally me and Pam (Blondy).
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:26 pm

    There is clearly something cooking or brewing regarding someone being fired soon by this idiot president.  There is no way Senator Mark Warner gave that long speech today on the floor for no certain reason about how Trump had better not try firing Mueller.  Something is amiss.  I see that the House intel committee's repubs are doing their own secret investigation by looking through classified information from their Russia investigation in an effort to find wrongdoing by the FBI so that they can essentially try to further discredit the FBI.  

    You know what this is starting to smell like?  Smells like some serious shit is about to come down either against Trump or his dipshit kids or Kushner and this is all preparation for discrediting any and all accusations, indictments, etc as corrupt or biased.  Shit's getting ugly and going to get uglier.
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    cream919
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by cream919 on Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:45 pm

    You and Tim and occasionally me and Pam (Blondy).


    *****************************************************************************************


    Just one little happy dysfunctional family!  I love you A tear just dropped into my egg nog.  Sad
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    Re: Brewing Constitutional Crisis

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:48 pm

    Interesting development in PA that falls in line with recent discussions on this topic.  Pennsylvania GOP senate leader is refusing to cooperate with PA supreme court ruling to end gerrymandering.  Looks like he's declared it to be a wrong ruling and fuck the surpreme court.  

    http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/371684-pa-state-senate-leader-refuses-court-order-on-redrawing-district-maps


    I also heard that the US SCOTUS might be considering overruling the state supreme court ruling in PA, which is something I always learned was a huge no-no unless the SCOTUS is ruling in a way that is affording some kind of basic human rights that are being denied at a state level.  So much for state's rights.  

    Of course, at some point, the worm will turn and many of these gerrymandered states will be Dem ruled, and the Dems will do the same shit.  They'll gerrymander the MF out of every state they can and then the GOP will be crying the same way the Dems are.  Amazing to me that both parties can't see this as important, but nobody seems to be able to see the forest through the trees.

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