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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Abnormal is now normal

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:21 pm

    I don't even know what to make of my nightly news anymore.  Two mass gun massacres in the past month or so, and we shrug.  Our politicians shrug.  We offer thoughts and prayers, and then we move on.  No biggie, I guess.  

    Our president lies to us, according to Politifact, an average of 5.5 provable times per day.  We don't even care.  Remember when we'd get Clinton fatigue, or Bush fatigue, or Obama fatigue?  I think we have WTF fatigue because this president has had so many WTF moments that nobody gives a shit anymore.

    Trump is tweeting almost daily that he wants the DOJ to pursue an investigation against Hillary.  If he were doing this in secret it'd be considered a scandal.  But I guess it's not a scandal if he does it in the open?  

    And that brings me to future US Senator, Roy Moore.  Isn't it a pretty safe bet this dude will win?  The uproar about his past is pretty low-roar, if you ask me.  I suppose that's partly because we seemed to be ok when all of the allegations came out by women with stories about Trump.  This fucking dude was banned from the local mall for harassing the young, pretty girls.  He was calling high school girls, allegedly, while they were fucking TRIG class to ask them on dates.  Oh, well.  At least he's one of them there Bible totin' fellas, lookin' down on them gays.  

    When Mueller is done with his investigation and says Trump didn't truly commit a felonious crime, but colluded knowingly with Wikileaks to release knowingly stolen emails from the DNC by Russia, everyone will just shrug and not care.  Because that's what our society is now.
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    blondy28
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by blondy28 on Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:15 pm

    As you know, FB has a feature that shows posts on that day in previous years.  Everything I said last year when the orange fat ass was elected has happened.  Seriously.  Everything I feared.  Anti-LGBT, pro-rape, anti-immigrant, pro-war, tax increase, healthcare mess, etc.  So not only would my taxes under the House plan go up by $4,000, my husband's company is changing insurance.  We are switching from BC/BS to Aetna.  I lose my most important doctor, with no replacement.  And out-of-network/in-network exception is a fucking scam.  And our insurance premiums are going up $1,000/year.  Our deductible will remain the same...$5,000, but hubby's company used to reimburse us 70% of the deductible....or $3,500.  Next year?  They're going to have an HSA program and they'll match us up to $20/week...so basically, $1,000.  And the HSA can't be used for reimbursement until the money is actually in the account.  Under the plan we've had, it's reimbursed immediately...it's processed as soon as you submit the bill.   So when all those HUGE medical expenses hit in January, you have to wait for the $20 to hit the HSA to get reimbursement.  And guess what...medical providers are asking for payment UP FRONT or TIME OF SERVICE.  That didn't used to be a big deal when I could put it on a charge card and have reimbursement by the time the bill came due.  Now I won't be able to get the treatment because I won't have the money up front.  And, oh, my ambien...which I take every single night...SORRY, Aetna says no.  I can only have 15 pills a month.  And not at the 12.5 mg dose I've been taking since 2006...the "women's" recommended dosage is 6.25 mg.  So I can have 15 pills at half the dose.  

    So for those doing the math, $4,000 tax increase, $3,500 increase in medical expenses, and oh yeah, gas is over $3.00 a gallon (under $2.00 a year ago).
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    sharpy
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by sharpy on Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:25 pm

    Gee, I guess maybe everyone calling me a reactionist and an alarmist over the election of Trump are maybe questioning if the label is appropriate. I was also told, that I was a screwball when I made the statement that it was possible that only the military turning their back on trump and for the nation may be the only thing that saves us ....well we have already heard of one general saying he will say Fuck you to trump should he want to fire an illegal (whatever the fuck that means) nuclear strike (and I expect him to be fired very soon).   I would suggest to the nation that they best elect a democratic house in 2018 b/c if they do not, I wouldn't be so sure there will be a presidential election in 2020. 
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by sharpy on Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:32 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:I don't even know what to make of my nightly news anymore.  Two mass gun massacres in the past month or so, and we shrug.  Our politicians shrug.  We offer thoughts and prayers, and then we move on.  No biggie, I guess.  

    Our president lies to us, according to Politifact, an average of 5.5 provable times per day.  We don't even care.  Remember when we'd get Clinton fatigue, or Bush fatigue, or Obama fatigue?  I think we have WTF fatigue because this president has had so many WTF moments that nobody gives a shit anymore.

    Trump is tweeting almost daily that he wants the DOJ to pursue an investigation against Hillary.  If he were doing this in secret it'd be considered a scandal.  But I guess it's not a scandal if he does it in the open?  

    And that brings me to future US Senator, Roy Moore.  Isn't it a pretty safe bet this dude will win?  The uproar about his past is pretty low-roar, if you ask me.  I suppose that's partly because we seemed to be ok when all of the allegations came out by women with stories about Trump.  This fucking dude was banned from the local mall for harassing the young, pretty girls.  He was calling high school girls, allegedly, while they were fucking TRIG class to ask them on dates.  Oh, well.  At least he's one of them there Bible totin' fellas, lookin' down on them gays.  

    When Mueller is done with his investigation and says Trump didn't truly commit a felonious crime, but colluded knowingly with Wikileaks to release knowingly stolen emails from the DNC by Russia, everyone will just shrug and not care.  Because that's what our society is now.

    I think there is plenty of outrage but unfortunately, people ask themselves, "what can I do"? And the answer is nothing.  Secondly, the democratic party is a bunch of wimps who let all of the above slide by without being on pulpits screaming from the roof tops about the indiscretion. Why aren't they calling for an investigation into the Niger massacre which was way worse than Benghazi ever was?  Shit, where are the conservatives on this board asking for a Niger investigation - where are the dems screaming about it and making it into a big deal like the GOP did for Benghazi?  Moore will be elected, b/c being a pedophile isn't quite as bad as being a democrat who might give a black guy a break in 'Bama, and more will follow him.  Watch the election between Sherrod brown and Josh mandel (a real piece of shit) and we'll see where the nation is going. If Brown loses - and its possible, I would seriously start looking at brochures of Canada because with all the gerrymandering that is going to go on, the dems are dead. 
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    blondy28
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by blondy28 on Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:54 pm

    sharpy wrote:Gee, I guess maybe everyone calling me a reactionist and an alarmist over the election of Trump are maybe questioning if the label is appropriate. I was also told, that I was a screwball when I made the statement that it was possible that only the military turning their back on trump and for the nation may be the only thing that saves us ....well we have already heard of one general saying he will say Fuck you to trump should he want to fire an illegal (whatever the fuck that means) nuclear strike (and I expect him to be fired very soon).   I would suggest to the nation that they best elect a democratic house in 2018 b/c if they do not, I wouldn't be so sure there will be a presidential election in 2020. 

    I didn't call you an alarmist.  I thought you were spot on.  As I said back then..."it's not fear mongering if you fear that someone will do EXACTLY what they said they were going to do".  Everyone said that Trump was spewing that rhetoric, but that once elected, he would govern as a centrist, because he's really a democrat.  Frankly, I'm not even sure that his ideology is Republican as much as his ideology is to vilify Obama and overturn everything he ever did because he's been plotting revenge on Obama ever since Obama made jokes about him at the Correspondence Dinner.  He's that thin skinned and arrogant.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:19 pm

    sharpy wrote:

     Shit, where are the conservatives on this board asking for a Niger investigation - where are the dems screaming about it and making it into a big deal like the GOP did for Benghazi? 

    Are there conservatives on this board?  There's Kevin, but I can't recall him ever making a peep about Benghazi.  

    My observation is that the GOP is willing to play mean and nasty.  The Dems don't yell and scream about certain shit because they believe doing it is dumb and accomplishes nothing, rather than just doing it anyway and seeing if it accomplishes something.  I never understood all of the GOP yelling about Benghazi and I assumed everyone thought it was stupid, but I wouldn't be surprised if it swayed 1% of the American public, and really, that's all they needed to sway.  There was no there, there.  Sensible people knew that, but there are plenty of un-sensible people.
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by blondy28 on Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:13 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    sharpy wrote:

     Shit, where are the conservatives on this board asking for a Niger investigation - where are the dems screaming about it and making it into a big deal like the GOP did for Benghazi? 

    Are there conservatives on this board?  There's Kevin, but I can't recall him ever making a peep about Benghazi.  

    My observation is that the GOP is willing to play mean and nasty.  The Dems don't yell and scream about certain shit because they believe doing it is dumb and accomplishes nothing, rather than just doing it anyway and seeing if it accomplishes something.  I never understood all of the GOP yelling about Benghazi and I assumed everyone thought it was stupid, but I wouldn't be surprised if it swayed 1% of the American public, and really, that's all they needed to sway.  There was no there, there.  Sensible people knew that, but there are plenty of un-sensible people.

    It's rather astounding that people can be so easily manipulated...although I suppose what we're seeing now is actually the culmination of decades and decades of calculation and strategy taken right out of a cult playbook.  The first order of business in a cult is to get the members not to trust (fill in the blank...parents, loved ones, the outside world, etc.).  "Liberal media" anyone?  And look...I'm not suggesting that Bill and Hill aren't like all other politicians...but to suggest that they are infinitely different than other politicians?  That was years and decades of vilification, and the "liberal media" certainly weren't going to get through to those people.  And the same people who are supposedly "fiscal conservatives" have no problem with having, what, 14 Republican-led witch hunts, at an absurd cost to all of us, just to satisfy their insatiable for Clinton blood.  And yes, they would say "well, that's what you're doing with Trump...you're the one who's brainwashed."  The false equivalency is mind boggling.  Trump is a pig.  He's stupid.  Every fact check organization says he lies more than he tells the truth.  "Fake news"...that's the cult member version of "liberal media".  Side note:  Saw an interesting article with Sarah Silverman and a man who used to be a Nazi Skinhead and who now helps reform other white supremacists.  They were talking about how the supremacists have changed so that they fit into mainstream society.  No more hoods and swastikas...it's suits, and jeans and preppy shirts, and that what they used to call the "Jewish media" is now the "liberal media".  Didn't even consider that the term "liberal media" was a racist dog whistle.  So it serves several purposes.  

    Truly, our playbook is pathetic.  We definitely have a knife at a gun fight.  And if we don't change our game plan, we're going to continue to lose.
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    SoxIlliniRob
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:50 am

    blondy28 wrote:


    It's rather astounding that people can be so easily manipulated...although I suppose what we're seeing now is actually the culmination of decades and decades of calculation and strategy taken right out of a cult playbook.  The first order of business in a cult is to get the members not to trust (fill in the blank...parents, loved ones, the outside world, etc.).  "Liberal media" anyone?  And look...I'm not suggesting that Bill and Hill aren't like all other politicians...but to suggest that they are infinitely different than other politicians?  That was years and decades of vilification, and the "liberal media" certainly weren't going to get through to those people.  And the same people who are supposedly "fiscal conservatives" have no problem with having, what, 14 Republican-led witch hunts, at an absurd cost to all of us, just to satisfy their insatiable for Clinton blood.  And yes, they would say "well, that's what you're doing with Trump...you're the one who's brainwashed."  The false equivalency is mind boggling. 

    One main counterargument to the false equivalency is that there is no Dem led witch hunts because the Dems have no power.  All of these current investigations were started by the right.  I think that's overlooked a bit.  Dems support them, obviously, but these Russian investigations are being instigated by Repubs.  

    Trump is a pig.  He's stupid.  Every fact check organization says he lies more than he tells the truth.  "Fake news"...that's the cult member version of "liberal media".  Side note:  Saw an interesting article with Sarah Silverman and a man who used to be a Nazi Skinhead and who now helps reform other white supremacists.  They were talking about how the supremacists have changed so that they fit into mainstream society.  No more hoods and swastikas...it's suits, and jeans and preppy shirts, and that what they used to call the "Jewish media" is now the "liberal media".  Didn't even consider that the term "liberal media" was a racist dog whistle.  So it serves several purposes.  

    Interesting, regarding replacing the word "Jew" with "liberal."  I can see that.  Not sure it's a dog whistle to all of the right.  There are plenty that just think the liberals control the media and slant it their way without any concern for whether it's a bunch of Jewish folks. 

    Truly, our playbook is pathetic.  We definitely have a knife at a gun fight.  And if we don't change our game plan, we're going to continue to lose.

    This is where I'm torn.  I don't know about you, but I don't want to see a bunch of Dem-led queries into Niger, or Russia, or Jared Kushner.  The one that Mueller's doing now is enough.  I become embarrassed to identify with a party when they go over the deep end, the same way I suspect someone like Aloha cringes every time he sees some dipshit saying something stupid on the TV with the (R) next to his name.  Guys like Trump and Moore are making a joke of that party, along with all of these dopes that preach about the LORRRRRRD and the gays going to hell, while carrying on relationships with other men, or having relationships outside of their marriage all while espousing to be the party of God and family values.  So, to this point, yes the Dems fight a very weak game and I'm torn as to whether they ought to take the high road and continue doing so, or to try fighting dirty and looking like idiots, but also swaying dopes that don't know any better, the same way the GOP finds way to sway uninformed dopes.  Bill Maher complains about this a lot, as I'm sure you already know.  Maybe it's my snobbish, elitist, know-it-all cuntish, smugness, but I tend to want to see my party try taking the high road akin to the way Franken immediately issued a full apology and acknowledgement to his accuser, rather than deny it and call the accuser a lying attention whore.  And of course, now the Orange Imbecile figures he's on solid ground to castigate Franken because Franken has acknowledged the incident as having happened, whereas Trump has just denied it all.  It's hard to imagine that the US public is this dumb, but up to now they have proven that they are.  Maybe the 2018 midterm elections will renew my faith in humanity.  
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    blondy28
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by blondy28 on Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:22 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:


    It's rather astounding that people can be so easily manipulated...although I suppose what we're seeing now is actually the culmination of decades and decades of calculation and strategy taken right out of a cult playbook.  The first order of business in a cult is to get the members not to trust (fill in the blank...parents, loved ones, the outside world, etc.).  "Liberal media" anyone?  And look...I'm not suggesting that Bill and Hill aren't like all other politicians...but to suggest that they are infinitely different than other politicians?  That was years and decades of vilification, and the "liberal media" certainly weren't going to get through to those people.  And the same people who are supposedly "fiscal conservatives" have no problem with having, what, 14 Republican-led witch hunts, at an absurd cost to all of us, just to satisfy their insatiable for Clinton blood.  And yes, they would say "well, that's what you're doing with Trump...you're the one who's brainwashed."  The false equivalency is mind boggling. 

    One main counterargument to the false equivalency is that there is no Dem led witch hunts because the Dems have no power.  All of these current investigations were started by the right.  I think that's overlooked a bit.  Dems support them, obviously, but these Russian investigations are being instigated by Repubs.  

    Trump is a pig.  He's stupid.  Every fact check organization says he lies more than he tells the truth.  "Fake news"...that's the cult member version of "liberal media".  Side note:  Saw an interesting article with Sarah Silverman and a man who used to be a Nazi Skinhead and who now helps reform other white supremacists.  They were talking about how the supremacists have changed so that they fit into mainstream society.  No more hoods and swastikas...it's suits, and jeans and preppy shirts, and that what they used to call the "Jewish media" is now the "liberal media".  Didn't even consider that the term "liberal media" was a racist dog whistle.  So it serves several purposes.  

    Interesting, regarding replacing the word "Jew" with "liberal."  I can see that.  Not sure it's a dog whistle to all of the right.  There are plenty that just think the liberals control the media and slant it their way without any concern for whether it's a bunch of Jewish folks. 

    Truly, our playbook is pathetic.  We definitely have a knife at a gun fight.  And if we don't change our game plan, we're going to continue to lose.

    This is where I'm torn.  I don't know about you, but I don't want to see a bunch of Dem-led queries into Niger, or Russia, or Jared Kushner.  The one that Mueller's doing now is enough.  I become embarrassed to identify with a party when they go over the deep end, the same way I suspect someone like Aloha cringes every time he sees some dipshit saying something stupid on the TV with the (R) next to his name.  Guys like Trump and Moore are making a joke of that party, along with all of these dopes that preach about the LORRRRRRD and the gays going to hell, while carrying on relationships with other men, or having relationships outside of their marriage all while espousing to be the party of God and family values.  So, to this point, yes the Dems fight a very weak game and I'm torn as to whether they ought to take the high road and continue doing so, or to try fighting dirty and looking like idiots, but also swaying dopes that don't know any better, the same way the GOP finds way to sway uninformed dopes.  Bill Maher complains about this a lot, as I'm sure you already know.  Maybe it's my snobbish, elitist, know-it-all cuntish, smugness, but I tend to want to see my party try taking the high road akin to the way Franken immediately issued a full apology and acknowledgement to his accuser, rather than deny it and call the accuser a lying attention whore.  And of course, now the Orange Imbecile figures he's on solid ground to castigate Franken because Franken has acknowledged the incident as having happened, whereas Trump has just denied it all.  It's hard to imagine that the US public is this dumb, but up to now they have proven that they are.  Maybe the 2018 midterm elections will renew my faith in humanity.  

    Not saying the liberal/Jewish media is a dog whistle to all of the right.  Just letting you know what a guy on the inside has said about the changes the white supremacist groups have made to become more mainstream.

    You misunderstand my point about our playbook.  I don't think you match the insane with the insane, but rather, actually make issues out of things that ARE issues, and don't cower in the corner.  What about calling for an investigation into sexual assault/rape claims against Trump?  Or AT THE VERY LEAST, every time there's even a mention of sexual assault and harassment...like the DOJ ordering an investigation into Harvey Weinstein or the Senate investigation of Al Franken...bring up the fact that we have a sexual predator in the White House!  And yes, I know the fear...that opens the dems up to Bill Clinton criticism, but you know what I follow that up with?  There's a sexual predator on the Supreme Court, and certainly enough accusers at this point to say that if Clinton was indeed a predator, it sure appears that he succeeded a predator in Bush 41, who now has a long line of accusers.  Bringing the gun to the fight means reminding people every minute you can that Trump is a sexual predator who has been accused of raping a child...a fact that was backed up by witnesses, and that he has called his 16 victims liars.   We fall right into the hands of the cult playbook ALWAYS.  Republicans:  "We're going to give you this awesome tax cut, but the Dems will do their usual and play class warfare and pit hard working Americans against each other."  Democrats:  "This is a tax cut for the rich".  Republicans:  "Told you so."  So when the dems speak the truth, all the morons just see that the Republicans were right because their prediction is exactly what happened!  The Democrats need to get a Frank Luntz and go on the offensive for a change.
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:16 pm

    blondy28 wrote:

    You misunderstand my point about our playbook.  I don't think you match the insane with the insane, but rather, actually make issues out of things that ARE issues, and don't cower in the corner.  What about calling for an investigation into sexual assault/rape claims against Trump? 

    A part of me says to leave it alone.  He was elected with all of that on the table, so I don't see a point to an ethics investigation, whereas this Franken thing came out in the open after his election.  Another part of me says that every time one of these stories is in the news, just point out that it must be ok, since we elected an openly admitted predator.

    On a separate note, I've seen a few things that hint that there's a lot more trickery to this Franken story than meets the eye.  Hannity and Roger Stone knew about it before it broke.  Hannity and this Leanne lady are buddies.  And now there are videos surfacing of that particular USO performance whereby this Leanne person is on video on stage grabbing guys' asses while they're playing the guitar.  I've seen them.  I've seen photos of her grabbing Robin Williams' ass.  I sort of wonder if Franken is playing possum and maybe he wants an investigation to put her under oath.  I saw where some military dude said he had to escort Franken everywhere he went for the entire time he was on this tour and that he never saw any of this kissing rehearsal.  I'm not saying it didn't happen, and that perhaps something even worse didn't happen, but it seems to me like this has a bad smell to it, akin to a set up.    



    Or AT THE VERY LEAST, every time there's even a mention of sexual assault and harassment...like the DOJ ordering an investigation into Harvey Weinstein or the Senate investigation of Al Franken...bring up the fact that we have a sexual predator in the White House!

    YES.  I should have read ahead.  I'm on this same page.  

      And yes, I know the fear...that opens the dems up to Bill Clinton criticism, but you know what I follow that up with?

    Follow it up with Clinton is out of office for 20 yrs now.  He is not related to this conversation.  Clinton was fucking impeached.  

      There's a sexual predator on the Supreme Court

    Not willing to go there with Clarence Thomas over some stupid assed comments he is believed to have made to Anita Hill.  I've probably said some stupid shit in my life in the spirit of bad flirtation, and I ain't no predator...at least, as far as you know. 

    , and certainly enough accusers at this point to say that if Clinton was indeed a predator, it sure appears that he succeeded a predator in Bush 41, who now has a long line of accusers. 

    Not sure I view 41 as a predator so much as a creepy, handsy, pervy, old dude.  

    Bringing the gun to the fight means reminding people every minute you can that Trump is a sexual predator who has been accused of raping a child...a fact that was backed up by witnesses, and that he has called his 16 victims liars.

    It is interesting that the woman that claims he raped her as a 13 yr old is summarily dismissed.  I don't know if she's lying or not, but she's been threatened into hiding, so we may never hear all of the details.  

       We fall right into the hands of the cult playbook ALWAYS.  Republicans:  "We're going to give you this awesome tax cut, but the Dems will do their usual and play class warfare and pit hard working Americans against each other."  Democrats:  "This is a tax cut for the rich".  Republicans:  "Told you so."  So when the dems speak the truth, all the morons just see that the Republicans were right because their prediction is exactly what happened!  The Democrats need to get a Frank Luntz and go on the offensive for a change.

    We strongly agree on this.  The Dems hold the national majority position on almost every single issue and can't figure out how to turn that into a political majority.  WTF is wrong with these people.  Look at the issues and tell me where Dem ideals are in the minority.  Progressive taxation.  Abortion.  Marriage equality.  Higher minimum wages.  Gun restrictions.  How do deal with immigrants.  Even now on ACA there is majority support.  I'm not really sure what issue, if any, has majority support from conservatives.  Not saying there isn't one, but I don't know what it is.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by alohafri on Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:48 am

    Benghazi? I thought that was Sean Hannity's middle name. He certainly says it enough. That clown spends so much time talking about the losing candidate in 2016. I think he wants to do her.
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by blondy28 on Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:40 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:

    You misunderstand my point about our playbook.  I don't think you match the insane with the insane, but rather, actually make issues out of things that ARE issues, and don't cower in the corner.  What about calling for an investigation into sexual assault/rape claims against Trump? 

    A part of me says to leave it alone.  He was elected with all of that on the table, so I don't see a point to an ethics investigation, whereas this Franken thing came out in the open after his election.  Another part of me says that every time one of these stories is in the news, just point out that it must be ok, since we elected an openly admitted predator.

    On a separate note, I've seen a few things that hint that there's a lot more trickery to this Franken story than meets the eye.  Hannity and Roger Stone knew about it before it broke.  Hannity and this Leanne lady are buddies.  And now there are videos surfacing of that particular USO performance whereby this Leanne person is on video on stage grabbing guys' asses while they're playing the guitar.  I've seen them.  I've seen photos of her grabbing Robin Williams' ass.  I sort of wonder if Franken is playing possum and maybe he wants an investigation to put her under oath.  I saw where some military dude said he had to escort Franken everywhere he went for the entire time he was on this tour and that he never saw any of this kissing rehearsal.  I'm not saying it didn't happen, and that perhaps something even worse didn't happen, but it seems to me like this has a bad smell to it, akin to a set up.    



    Or AT THE VERY LEAST, every time there's even a mention of sexual assault and harassment...like the DOJ ordering an investigation into Harvey Weinstein or the Senate investigation of Al Franken...bring up the fact that we have a sexual predator in the White House!

    YES.  I should have read ahead.  I'm on this same page.  

      And yes, I know the fear...that opens the dems up to Bill Clinton criticism, but you know what I follow that up with?

    Follow it up with Clinton is out of office for 20 yrs now.  He is not related to this conversation.  Clinton was fucking impeached.  

      There's a sexual predator on the Supreme Court

    Not willing to go there with Clarence Thomas over some stupid assed comments he is believed to have made to Anita Hill.  I've probably said some stupid shit in my life in the spirit of bad flirtation, and I ain't no predator...at least, as far as you know. 

    , and certainly enough accusers at this point to say that if Clinton was indeed a predator, it sure appears that he succeeded a predator in Bush 41, who now has a long line of accusers. 

    Not sure I view 41 as a predator so much as a creepy, handsy, pervy, old dude.  

    Bringing the gun to the fight means reminding people every minute you can that Trump is a sexual predator who has been accused of raping a child...a fact that was backed up by witnesses, and that he has called his 16 victims liars.

    It is interesting that the woman that claims he raped her as a 13 yr old is summarily dismissed.  I don't know if she's lying or not, but she's been threatened into hiding, so we may never hear all of the details.  

       We fall right into the hands of the cult playbook ALWAYS.  Republicans:  "We're going to give you this awesome tax cut, but the Dems will do their usual and play class warfare and pit hard working Americans against each other."  Democrats:  "This is a tax cut for the rich".  Republicans:  "Told you so."  So when the dems speak the truth, all the morons just see that the Republicans were right because their prediction is exactly what happened!  The Democrats need to get a Frank Luntz and go on the offensive for a change.

    We strongly agree on this.  The Dems hold the national majority position on almost every single issue and can't figure out how to turn that into a political majority.  WTF is wrong with these people.  Look at the issues and tell me where Dem ideals are in the minority.  Progressive taxation.  Abortion.  Marriage equality.  Higher minimum wages.  Gun restrictions.  How do deal with immigrants.  Even now on ACA there is majority support.  I'm not really sure what issue, if any, has majority support from conservatives.  Not saying there isn't one, but I don't know what it is.

    A woman has come forward about 41 groping her in the early 90s.  He was 65 when he was elected.  The predator in the White House is 70 now, and he's clearly of an age where he is still capable of predatory behavior.  So I can't write off H.W.'s actions as being those of a pervy old dude.  Too many women, and clearly started at least a quarter century ago.
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    blondy28
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by blondy28 on Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:54 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:On a separate note, I've seen a few things that hint that there's a lot more trickery to this Franken story than meets the eye.  Hannity and Roger Stone knew about it before it broke.  Hannity and this Leanne lady are buddies.  And now there are videos surfacing of that particular USO performance whereby this Leanne person is on video on stage grabbing guys' asses while they're playing the guitar.  I've seen them.  I've seen photos of her grabbing Robin Williams' ass.  I sort of wonder if Franken is playing possum and maybe he wants an investigation to put her under oath.  I saw where some military dude said he had to escort Franken everywhere he went for the entire time he was on this tour and that he never saw any of this kissing rehearsal.  I'm not saying it didn't happen, and that perhaps something even worse didn't happen, but it seems to me like this has a bad smell to it, akin to a set up.    

    I hadn't heard that about Robin Williams when you posted this, but I heard it today, and I think this very much speaks to my definition of sexual harassment...know your audience.  And that's not always clear.  Seems to me that based on the interactions that this group had with each other, he had reason to believe that Tweeden would have taken it as a joke.  Franken seemed to be dishing out exactly what Tweeden herself was.  Heck, one of my best friends made my boobs a bar joke.  I visited her in Minnesota, and we were in a bar and she pretty much announced to her male friends "she had the BC...grab her boobs...she don't care".  It was funny!  Of course, when you've had breast cancer, a lot of people grab your boobs...and you can't feel anything anymore...so whatever.  My point is SHE knows me...she "knows her audience".  She knew I would think it was funny.  But truly, one can't be 100% sure.  Franken isn't Roy Moore.  And this latest woman to claim he grabbed her...she seems a little suspect.  I could buy the claim on its face, but when she said "and, oh, BTW...there was this Republican guy at the same state fair, and he was SSSSOOOOO considerate that he asked my permission to even touch my shoulder when we posed for a picture and he made a point of saying that he always asks!"  It just has the feel of someone who's lying because they give wwwwaaaayyy too much detail.
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:58 pm

    blondy28 wrote:

    A woman has come forward about 41 groping her in the early 90s.  He was 65 when he was elected.  The predator in the White House is 70 now, and he's clearly of an age where he is still capable of predatory behavior.  So I can't write off H.W.'s actions as being those of a pervy old dude.  Too many women, and clearly started at least a quarter century ago.

    I hear ya, but I'm just a bit more hesitant about tossing that word (predator) around.  I don't think of some daft old codger, or even a 65 yr old president, grabbing an occasional ass as a predator so much as just an asshole who needs a swift kick in the nuts.  In fairness, you're a woman and might view this through an ever-so-slightly different lens from a guy like myself, and I can fully understand and respect that.  The tricky thing is it's hard for me to explain or objectify how I separate a pervish asshole from a predator except to say I guess I think I know it when I see it.  To me there are almost three different things:  Predators, creepy weirdos, and pervy assholes. 
    Predators: Moore, Trump, Weinstein, Bill Clinton, Bill Cosby
    Creepy weirdos:  Louis CK, Clarence Thomas, or any other dude pulling his dick out for no certain reason.  
    Pervy assholes: GHB, probably 25 different congressmen, and most of my college roommates.  
    Not sure where I stand on Franken just yet.  Feels fishy to me, like maybe it's bullshit.
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by blondy28 on Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:25 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:

    A woman has come forward about 41 groping her in the early 90s.  He was 65 when he was elected.  The predator in the White House is 70 now, and he's clearly of an age where he is still capable of predatory behavior.  So I can't write off H.W.'s actions as being those of a pervy old dude.  Too many women, and clearly started at least a quarter century ago.

    I hear ya, but I'm just a bit more hesitant about tossing that word (predator) around.  I don't think of some daft old codger, or even a 65 yr old president, grabbing an occasional ass as a predator so much as just an asshole who needs a swift kick in the nuts.  In fairness, you're a woman and might view this through an ever-so-slightly different lens from a guy like myself, and I can fully understand and respect that.  The tricky thing is it's hard for me to explain or objectify how I separate a pervish asshole from a predator except to say I guess I think I know it when I see it.  To me there are almost three different things:  Predators, creepy weirdos, and pervy assholes. 
    Predators: Moore, Trump, Weinstein, Bill Clinton, Bill Cosby
    Creepy weirdos:  Louis CK, Clarence Thomas, or any other dude pulling his dick out for no certain reason.  
    Pervy assholes: GHB, probably 25 different congressmen, and most of my college roommates.  
    Not sure where I stand on Franken just yet.  Feels fishy to me, like maybe it's bullshit.

    No, I totally get it, and I, too, would be interested to know where that line is that bumps you from one category into the next.  For example, unless I don't know all the details, I kinda put Louis CK and Weinstein in the same category because of the masturbating.  Is Weinstein accused of assault?  I actually don't put Clinton in the predator category...which I tend to reserve for rapists.  Based on what we know, Spacey seems to clearly belong in the predator category.  But in any case or any category, when you do something serially, then I think there should be consequences.  Because I don't know that Bill O'Reilly is a predator, but he was a serial jag bag/harasser, and he deserves to lose his career.
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:07 pm

    blondy28 wrote:


    No, I totally get it, and I, too, would be interested to know where that line is that bumps you from one category into the next.  For example, unless I don't know all the details, I kinda put Louis CK and Weinstein in the same category because of the masturbating.  Is Weinstein accused of assault?  I actually don't put Clinton in the predator category...which I tend to reserve for rapists.  Based on what we know, Spacey seems to clearly belong in the predator category.  But in any case or any category, when you do something serially, then I think there should be consequences.  Because I don't know that Bill O'Reilly is a predator, but he was a serial jag bag/harasser, and he deserves to lose his career.

    I believe there are several women claiming Weinstein raped them.  One for certain is Annabella Sciora.  There's a pretty detailed interview with her where she gives some pretty revolting specifics and details about him raping her.  And a few more have said the same thing about him.  Guys pulling their dicks out don't seem as predatory to me as just fucking weird and creepy, unless they are pulling it out for a young girl.  I left some guys out just because I can't keep track of all of these freaks....O'Reilly, Spacey, etc.  Maybe the way I'm separating predatory behavior with creepy behavior is when someone violates a person's space, versus just whipping out their dick and yanking it for no good reason.  Public yanking it just seems more like indecent exposure with an exclamation point.
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by alohafri on Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:01 am

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:

    I hear ya, but I'm just a bit more hesitant about tossing that word (predator) around.  I don't think of some daft old codger, or even a 65 yr old president, grabbing an occasional ass as a predator so much as just an asshole who needs a swift kick in the nuts.  In fairness, you're a woman and might view this through an ever-so-slightly different lens from a guy like myself, and I can fully understand and respect that.  The tricky thing is it's hard for me to explain or objectify how I separate a pervish asshole from a predator except to say I guess I think I know it when I see it.  To me there are almost three different things:  Predators, creepy weirdos, and pervy assholes. 
    Predators: Moore, Trump, Weinstein, Bill Clinton, Bill Cosby
    Creepy weirdos:  Louis CK, Clarence Thomas, or any other dude pulling his dick out for no certain reason.  
    Pervy assholes: GHB, probably 25 different congressmen, and most of my college roommates.  
    Not sure where I stand on Franken just yet.  Feels fishy to me, like maybe it's bullshit.

    Walter Payton was a notorious ass-grabber. Of course he didn't discriminate. He grabbed male asses as well as female asses. I remember Steve Dahl saying that you knew when you were in Walter's inner circle when he grabbed your ass.
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by blondy28 on Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:49 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    blondy28 wrote:

    A woman has come forward about 41 groping her in the early 90s.  He was 65 when he was elected.  The predator in the White House is 70 now, and he's clearly of an age where he is still capable of predatory behavior.  So I can't write off H.W.'s actions as being those of a pervy old dude.  Too many women, and clearly started at least a quarter century ago.

    I hear ya, but I'm just a bit more hesitant about tossing that word (predator) around.  I don't think of some daft old codger, or even a 65 yr old president, grabbing an occasional ass as a predator so much as just an asshole who needs a swift kick in the nuts.  In fairness, you're a woman and might view this through an ever-so-slightly different lens from a guy like myself, and I can fully understand and respect that.  The tricky thing is it's hard for me to explain or objectify how I separate a pervish asshole from a predator except to say I guess I think I know it when I see it.  To me there are almost three different things:  Predators, creepy weirdos, and pervy assholes. 
    Predators: Moore, Trump, Weinstein, Bill Clinton, Bill Cosby
    Creepy weirdos:  Louis CK, Clarence Thomas, or any other dude pulling his dick out for no certain reason.  
    Pervy assholes: GHB, probably 25 different congressmen, and most of my college roommates.  
    Not sure where I stand on Franken just yet.  Feels fishy to me, like maybe it's bullshit.

    I think those are probably fair categories, although I think pervy, creepy weirdos are a hop, skip and a jump from being predators.  I mean, there's probably an age where you can safety assume that they don't make that jump and remain just pervy (like my brother in law), but I'd be surprised if most predators weren't creepy weirdos/pervy assholes first.

    Today I e-mailed my very good friend, who had been my very best friend for many years, although we don't talk as much since I left my old company.  A group of us get together a few times a year for dinner, and we always joke about how the thin veil of professionalism falls about a minute into our dinner (it's three women and two men).  So I sent John an e-mail and said "for the record, I still don't care if you sexually harass me", and he said "And thanks for the permission to harass.  I feel my entire personality has become illegal.  Thought I had more levels than that, but it turns out I don’t!  Without testosterone it turns out I’m a shell!"  At my first full time job, there was an older man that I worked with who was a dirty old man.  He never hit on me, nor did I ever feel like he would.  He was hysterical.  I took no offense at that.  My first job after I got married, I had a boss who I really liked.  He was a very kind man...very smart.  He had a masters from Harvard.  He was a chubby, pretty unattractive guy.  Super conservative.  A Christian Scientist.  He wasn't even supposed to drink caffeine (although he drank coffee everyday, which his wife didn't know).  He used to attempt flirtation with me, but he was so not good at it, and it was just sorta cute...like a little kid kinda innocence.  And there are many other examples of men that I could probably put under the harassment umbrella if I were so inclined to make that argument, but none of them made me feel uncomfortable.  But there's one that was pretty bad.  And I didn't realize it at the time.  I was young.  23.  I was interviewing for a job at Household International...the corporate office in Northbrook.  I was in HR waiting to be interviewed, and they told me that the person who was going to interview me saw my resume and felt I was unqualified and he didn't want to interview me.  The HR person had to convince him to see me.  He offered me the job on the spot.  He was the boy wonder.  30 years old, and a vice president.  They had relocated him from Canada.  He was in a band.  I thought he was a cool guy.  He was dating someone that worked at the company who also had come from the Canada office.  Shortly after I started working there, I got engaged.  And he got cruel.  He would be fine sometimes, and flat out cruel others.  He had sex with one of my co-workers on my couch after a group of us went to a Bears' game.  I would come home evenings and cry.  I was so miserable.  I once fell asleep on the kitchen floor crying.  Dale kept telling me to quit.  Not sure how I could do that with a wedding coming up.  A friend at my former company kept telling me "Kevin wants you.  I'm telling you!"  I didn't see it.  In my eyes, he was too cruel to me to be interested in me.  Finally, without another job, I just quit.  Couldn't take it anymore.  I had invited him to my wedding, and he RSVP'd that he would come, but he didn't.  Or so I thought.  In my wedding video I saw him come into the church, sit in the last pew, watch me get married, then leave.  When I got back from my honeymoon, we made plans to meet so he could give me my wedding gift.  He said to me "I'm kinda glad you don't work for me anymore.  Now we could do things we couldn't do when I was your boss".  Now, it's as clear as a bell that this was sexual harassment.  As soon as I was  "off the market", he made my life hell most of the time.  And as a 23-year-old, I couldn't fathom that a guy who was attracted to me could be so cruel.  But with maturity, I saw it for what it clearly was.  So when I think about that experience, I wonder if the women coming out are having that kind of experience...where you are literally miserable.  And as someone who is not at all overly sensitive about dirty jokes and workplace flirting, I can see that even someone like me could be made miserable by a man in power, and it doesn't mean that I must be a buttoned up prude.  Quite the opposite.
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by cream919 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:31 am

    So much I could say on this topic, and other things that have been posted on here, but I've been extra busy lately and simply haven't had the time. I'll offer my thoughts on this complex subject when time allows. I know everyone is quivering with anxious anticipation. 

    As for you Blondy, between your thoughts on various topics and particularly this one (along with your self-disclosure), you've written some of your best posts. You've been intelligent and thought provoking. Damn girl...you've been on fire! Keep it up.

    My dear Tim, as always you've been able to cut through the bullshit. You aren't an alarmist. I think you've just got your finger on the pulse of things as they really are. We're in almost total agreement on most of the bullshit swirling around us in this fucked-up country and we've both said that the shit is just beginning to hit the fan. Unfortunately....we've been right. 

    As for Rob and Kevin in particular...you're both about as worthless as tits on a boar. Have a nice day!  Very Happy
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:59 am

    cream919 wrote:
    As for Rob and Kevin in particular...you're both about as worthless as tits on a boar. Have a nice day!  Very Happy

    Boooobies.  

    What brings you out from under your rock today, Mr. Cream?
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:06 am

    blondy28 wrote:


    I think those are probably fair categories, although I think pervy, creepy weirdos are a hop, skip and a jump from being predators.  I mean, there's probably an age where you can safety assume that they don't make that jump and remain just pervy (like my brother in law), but I'd be surprised if most predators weren't creepy weirdos/pervy assholes first.

    Pervy, creepy, weird, predators....kinda like going from drinking to smoking weed to trying something stronger.  They may all be very interchangeable, and I'm certainly no expert or final word on this.  Really just kind of giving my perceptions.  I've always had a personal code about not being handsy with girls I'm not dating or married to.  I just figure it's hard enough being a woman and having one less dude putting his hands in their space is probably appreciated by them.  I tend to probably slip on the verbal side a bit, but hopefully not to any significant degree.
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:10 am

    Very odd and interesting story.  Didn't most guys stop being mean to the girls we liked in about 4th grade? By 5th grade, I was bringing candy and other assorted goodies to give to the girls I liked at school.
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by alohafri on Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:53 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:
    cream919 wrote:
    As for Rob and Kevin in particular...you're both about as worthless as tits on a boar. Have a nice day!  Very Happy

    Boooobies.  

    What brings you out from under your rock today, Mr. Cream?

    He knew we may be talking about boobs.
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by blondy28 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:07 pm

    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Very odd and interesting story.  Didn't most guys stop being mean to the girls we liked in about 4th grade? By 5th grade, I was bringing candy and other assorted goodies to give to the girls I liked at school.

    Can't tell if this is serious or not.  We're not talking about the "pull your pony tail because I like you" kinda mean.  We're talking about the "you rejected me so I'm going to stalk you" kinda mean.  You certainly know that grown men who are rejected often turn on the women they profess to care about.
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    Re: Abnormal is now normal

    Post by SoxIlliniRob on Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:18 pm

    blondy28 wrote:
    SoxIlliniRob wrote:Very odd and interesting story.  Didn't most guys stop being mean to the girls we liked in about 4th grade? By 5th grade, I was bringing candy and other assorted goodies to give to the girls I liked at school.

    Can't tell if this is serious or not.  We're not talking about the "pull your pony tail because I like you" kinda mean.  We're talking about the "you rejected me so I'm going to stalk you" kinda mean.  You certainly know that grown men who are rejected often turn on the women they profess to care about.

    Was being mostly serious, but didn't think of it as if you rejected him.  You'd noted he was dating a girl from Canada and you got engaged shortly thereafter, so I didn't pick up on there being a "rejection," per se.  Just thought he had feelings for you that he couldn't reconcile, and that you didn't even recognize, so he just reconciled them by being an asshole to you.  And that seems weird to me.  Yes, there are surely weird dudes out there that deal with things in dumb ways, but I hope they are in the significant minority.  I assume they are.

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