The Sexual Harrassment/Assault House of Cards

blondy28 wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

blondy28 wrote:


What kind of rape proof do you need?  Certainly there are many folks whose behavior you have formed an opinion about based on the information that we know.  Cosby, for example.  I suspect that you had an opinion on his guilt even before the sealed transcript of an earlier case was released (and although he admitted to giving women ludes, he still did claim that it was consensual in the deposition).   What other reason would the woman who ARRANGED for Trump and Epstein to assault underage girls admit her own guilt under oath?  Certainly not for her 15 minutes of fame...she remained anonymous.  What would compel her to implicate herself in those events?  And you are well aware of Ivana's accusations, and you have heard the man admit to assaulting women.  What more do you need?

What do I need?  Hmmm.  Tough call.  I don't disbelieve that Donald is capable of rape, and don't necessarily disbelieve that he's raped someone, but assertively calling someone a rapist is a pretty high bar for me.  In Cosby's case, it seems like the same claim has been made by a couple a dozen women.  In Trump's case, it's two women, and one seems to still remain anonymous.  In Ivana's case, I believe her, but that doesn't mean she isn't lying or wasn't exaggerating the situation.  It's really just a matter of whether I'm willing to make an assertive statement that someone's a rapist or predator or something of the sort, versus being willing to believe that they are one of those things.  For me, at least, there's a difference.  All that said, I believe Donald is capable of just about any kind of crime if it would fit his needs at the moment.

There are three women in the lawsuit asserting that Trump and Jeffrey Epstein raped underage victims at sex parties.  One of them, as previously noted, worked for Jeffrey Epstein and admits that it was her job to provide the girls.  The other two in the lawsuit were victims.  Based on your super high bar, I suppose you don't believe that Brock Turner is a rapist...what with his victim being anonymous and all.

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

blondy28 wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

blondy28 wrote:


What kind of rape proof do you need?  Certainly there are many folks whose behavior you have formed an opinion about based on the information that we know.  Cosby, for example.  I suspect that you had an opinion on his guilt even before the sealed transcript of an earlier case was released (and although he admitted to giving women ludes, he still did claim that it was consensual in the deposition).   What other reason would the woman who ARRANGED for Trump and Epstein to assault underage girls admit her own guilt under oath?  Certainly not for her 15 minutes of fame...she remained anonymous.  What would compel her to implicate herself in those events?  And you are well aware of Ivana's accusations, and you have heard the man admit to assaulting women.  What more do you need?

What do I need?  Hmmm.  Tough call.  I don't disbelieve that Donald is capable of rape, and don't necessarily disbelieve that he's raped someone, but assertively calling someone a rapist is a pretty high bar for me.  In Cosby's case, it seems like the same claim has been made by a couple a dozen women.  In Trump's case, it's two women, and one seems to still remain anonymous.  In Ivana's case, I believe her, but that doesn't mean she isn't lying or wasn't exaggerating the situation.  It's really just a matter of whether I'm willing to make an assertive statement that someone's a rapist or predator or something of the sort, versus being willing to believe that they are one of those things.  For me, at least, there's a difference.  All that said, I believe Donald is capable of just about any kind of crime if it would fit his needs at the moment.

There are three women in the lawsuit asserting that Trump and Jeffrey Epstein raped underage victims at sex parties.  One of them, as previously noted, worked for Jeffrey Epstein and admits that it was her job to provide the girls.  The other two in the lawsuit were victims.  Based on your super high bar, I suppose you don't believe that Brock Turner is a rapist...what with his victim being anonymous and all.

Seeing as how there were witnesses and, I assume, DNA evidence from a rape kit, I do believe Turner is a rapist.  And didn't he plead guilty?  And keep in mind, it's not that I don't believe Trump's a rapist so much as I'm not sure enough to assert it.  For me there's some kind of fine line between the two that I probably couldn't ever really explain in clear words.  Put it this way...I don't find that I have any trouble calling Weinstein or Cosby a rapist, and perhaps that's because of the specific and gruesome details given by the many victims of those two vermin.

sharpy wrote:DNA doesn't indicate whether it was rape or consensual.


When the female is 14 it does 

blondy28 wrote:


DNA doesn't indicate whether it was rape or consensual.   Not only did Turner NOT plead guilty, news broke yesterday that he's appealing his conviction.  Yes, there were witnesses in Turner case, but there were witnesses in the Trump/Epstein accusations.  Have you actually read the suit?  Very specific and gruesome details.  I assume you have no problem assuming Epstein's guilt in this case, given that he's a registered sex offender and he went to prison for 13 months for it.  Epstein, Trump's partner in rape, testified:

"Q. Have you ever socialized with Donald Trump in the presence of females under the age of 18?
A: Though I’d like to answer that question, at least today I’m going to have to assert my Fifth, Sixth, and 14th Amendment rights, sir."

cream919 wrote:I think the thing with Hillary just represents a transference of anger and hate the right has ALWAYS had towards her hubby. Since they can't really go after him anymore, the next best thing they can do is endlessly hammer his wife. It's their way of getting back at Bill because he got away with so much and still remained in office and popular. On top of that, she certainly doesn't help herself any by being as evasive, shrill and shady as she is.

SoxIlliniRob wrote:Kev, there are still some dems out there pushing for another Hillary run in 2020.  Wtf are they smoking?

alohafri wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:Kev, there are still some dems out there pushing for another Hillary run in 2020.  Wtf are they smoking?

I've been hearing that the Democratic primary will be the clown car that the Republican primary of 2016 was.

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

alohafri wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:Kev, there are still some dems out there pushing for another Hillary run in 2020.  Wtf are they smoking?

I've been hearing that the Democratic primary will be the clown car that the Republican primary of 2016 was.

Hard to say.  You and I probably have different ideas of what would constitute a clownish candidate.  I haven't heard of too many WTF candidate possibilities.  Candidates I'm hearing are:  O'Malley (again), Biden (maybe), Sanders (possibly), Kamala Harris, Kristen Gillibrand, Amy Klobuchar, Duvall Patrick, Corey Booker, Gavin Newsom, Sherrod Brown, Tim Ryan, and Terry McCauliff.

I don't consider any of those to be clownish, besides maybe Biden and Sanders, but they are also smart, popular and likable, so they can get away with being clownish.  More then likely, there'll a clownish candidate or two that'll jump in.  Maybe a Mark Cuban or Kanye?

alohafri wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

alohafri wrote:

SoxIlliniRob wrote:Kev, there are still some dems out there pushing for another Hillary run in 2020.  Wtf are they smoking?

I've been hearing that the Democratic primary will be the clown car that the Republican primary of 2016 was.

Hard to say.  You and I probably have different ideas of what would constitute a clownish candidate.  I haven't heard of too many WTF candidate possibilities.  Candidates I'm hearing are:  O'Malley (again), Biden (maybe), Sanders (possibly), Kamala Harris, Kristen Gillibrand, Amy Klobuchar, Duvall Patrick, Corey Booker, Gavin Newsom, Sherrod Brown, Tim Ryan, and Terry McCauliff.

I don't consider any of those to be clownish, besides maybe Biden and Sanders, but they are also smart, popular and likable, so they can get away with being clownish.  More then likely, there'll a clownish candidate or two that'll jump in.  Maybe a Mark Cuban or Kanye?

Clown car, not clowns. Sheer numbers.

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

blondy28 wrote:


DNA doesn't indicate whether it was rape or consensual.   Not only did Turner NOT plead guilty, news broke yesterday that he's appealing his conviction.  Yes, there were witnesses in Turner case, but there were witnesses in the Trump/Epstein accusations.  Have you actually read the suit?  Very specific and gruesome details.  I assume you have no problem assuming Epstein's guilt in this case, given that he's a registered sex offender and he went to prison for 13 months for it.  Epstein, Trump's partner in rape, testified:

"Q. Have you ever socialized with Donald Trump in the presence of females under the age of 18?
A: Though I’d like to answer that question, at least today I’m going to have to assert my Fifth, Sixth, and 14th Amendment rights, sir."

Have not read the Trump suit.  Have only read gruesome accounts.  In Turner's case, there were witnesses that saw her being raped while unconscious.  So unless she's saying she gave consent to have sex with her unconscious body, then the rape case appears pretty clear cut.  The accounts I've read in the Trump 13 yr old encounter were not that the witness saw him having sex with her....only that the witness arranged the situation, whereby the rape is claimed to have occurred.  The only place you and I differ here is that I'm a tad more hesitant to call someone a rapist than you are.  Other than that, I believe we both view Trump through the same lens.

sharpy wrote:Ultimately, I'm guessing that the Dems REALLY want a female candidate to present as a calm, sensible contrast to the orange moron.  Hopefully they can find one with a tad more popularity than the last one.

Then there's a good chance they will lose again.  Laugh all you want at Biden, but he would have crushed Trump and may again in 2020.  They have to find a middle of the road guy, unfortunately white, and then pick Elizabeth Warren for the vice-presidency, or a minority candidate.  Elizabeth warren will lose - I don't want that, I'm sorry to say it, but she will lose. But what they really have to do - is cut the bullshit. Fuck these primaries where everyone stabs everyone in the back and makes the eventual winner look like a piece of shit. These dumb-ass democrats need to understand the importance of the next 2 years, and if they can't figure that out, then they are in the fascist plan as well and the only hope is the military. They need to get together, all the "great" minds and come up  with who they want to run - and who they want as vice president- and runs them and then get some bozos who will throw any debates and primaries and the 2 golden couple win by landslides and look great . they need to pull together and come together =- and they need to be ruthless and call a spade a spade when debating that asshole in the white house - but if there is still this divided party, its the end. 
And black people have to vote. Read an article where the democratic party can't get the black voters in Alabama, 40% of the party, to the polls to vote against Moore.  WTF?  They want an end to white supremacy, bad cops killing them, black lives matter, reparations, etc etc etc ...get off your ass and vote 

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

sharpy wrote:Ultimately, I'm guessing that the Dems REALLY want a female candidate to present as a calm, sensible contrast to the orange moron.  Hopefully they can find one with a tad more popularity than the last one.

Then there's a good chance they will lose again.  Laugh all you want at Biden, but he would have crushed Trump and may again in 2020.  They have to find a middle of the road guy, unfortunately white, and then pick Elizabeth Warren for the vice-presidency, or a minority candidate.  Elizabeth warren will lose - I don't want that, I'm sorry to say it, but she will lose. But what they really have to do - is cut the bullshit. Fuck these primaries where everyone stabs everyone in the back and makes the eventual winner look like a piece of shit. These dumb-ass democrats need to understand the importance of the next 2 years, and if they can't figure that out, then they are in the fascist plan as well and the only hope is the military. They need to get together, all the "great" minds and come up  with who they want to run - and who they want as vice president- and runs them and then get some bozos who will throw any debates and primaries and the 2 golden couple win by landslides and look great . they need to pull together and come together =- and they need to be ruthless and call a spade a spade when debating that asshole in the white house - but if there is still this divided party, its the end. 
And black people have to vote. Read an article where the democratic party can't get the black voters in Alabama, 40% of the party, to the polls to vote against Moore.  WTF?  They want an end to white supremacy, bad cops killing them, black lives matter, reparations, etc etc etc ...get off your ass and vote 

Couldn't agree more, Tim, although I think the right woman could win.  I don't see that "Right Woman" being Warren.  She'd get her ass kicked.  I believe either Biden or Sanders would have beaten Trump.  Most of my Trump voting friends say they'd have voted for Sanders over Trump, but just wouldn't vote for Hillary cuz they hated the shit out of her.  Frankly, I'm amazed at how horribly the Dems market themselves.  They have the majority of Americans identifying in their party, but they don't know a damn thing about how to message themselves.  The Dem platform has majority public support for almost every fucking issue, and they still can't figure out how to win elections because Frank Luntz tells the GOP to never call Obamacare anything but a "job killing takeover of health insurance" and to call anything Obama proposes to be "wealth redistribution."  And then they do it religiously and never veer off the path.  Dems can't message.  They are fucking stupid.  They can't figure out how to message this tax bill, which about 25% of the public likes.  It takes from the poor and gives to the rich, and Dems are like "ummm, this is very unfair and blah blah blah.....it isn't going to help create jobs...."  Give me a break.

sharpy wrote:Ultimately, I'm guessing that the Dems REALLY want a female candidate to present as a calm, sensible contrast to the orange moron.  Hopefully they can find one with a tad more popularity than the last one.

Then there's a good chance they will lose again.  Laugh all you want at Biden, but he would have crushed Trump and may again in 2020.  They have to find a middle of the road guy, unfortunately white, and then pick Elizabeth Warren for the vice-presidency, or a minority candidate.  Elizabeth warren will lose - I don't want that, I'm sorry to say it, but she will lose. But what they really have to do - is cut the bullshit. Fuck these primaries where everyone stabs everyone in the back and makes the eventual winner look like a piece of shit. These dumb-ass democrats need to understand the importance of the next 2 years, and if they can't figure that out, then they are in the fascist plan as well and the only hope is the military. They need to get together, all the "great" minds and come up  with who they want to run - and who they want as vice president- and runs them and then get some bozos who will throw any debates and primaries and the 2 golden couple win by landslides and look great . they need to pull together and come together =- and they need to be ruthless and call a spade a spade when debating that asshole in the white house - but if there is still this divided party, its the end. 
And black people have to vote. Read an article where the democratic party can't get the black voters in Alabama, 40% of the party, to the polls to vote against Moore.  WTF?  They want an end to white supremacy, bad cops killing them, black lives matter, reparations, etc etc etc ...get off your ass and vote 

alohafri wrote:

sharpy wrote:Ultimately, I'm guessing that the Dems REALLY want a female candidate to present as a calm, sensible contrast to the orange moron.  Hopefully they can find one with a tad more popularity than the last one.

Then there's a good chance they will lose again.  Laugh all you want at Biden, but he would have crushed Trump and may again in 2020.  They have to find a middle of the road guy, unfortunately white, and then pick Elizabeth Warren for the vice-presidency, or a minority candidate.  Elizabeth warren will lose - I don't want that, I'm sorry to say it, but she will lose. But what they really have to do - is cut the bullshit. Fuck these primaries where everyone stabs everyone in the back and makes the eventual winner look like a piece of shit. These dumb-ass democrats need to understand the importance of the next 2 years, and if they can't figure that out, then they are in the fascist plan as well and the only hope is the military. They need to get together, all the "great" minds and come up  with who they want to run - and who they want as vice president- and runs them and then get some bozos who will throw any debates and primaries and the 2 golden couple win by landslides and look great . they need to pull together and come together =- and they need to be ruthless and call a spade a spade when debating that asshole in the white house - but if there is still this divided party, its the end. 
And black people have to vote. Read an article where the democratic party can't get the black voters in Alabama, 40% of the party, to the polls to vote against Moore.  WTF?  They want an end to white supremacy, bad cops killing them, black lives matter, reparations, etc etc etc ...get off your ass and vote 

Had Jim Webb gotten the Democratic nod in 2016, I would have voted for him in a heartbeat. 

alohafri wrote:

sharpy wrote:Ultimately, I'm guessing that the Dems REALLY want a female candidate to present as a calm, sensible contrast to the orange moron.  Hopefully they can find one with a tad more popularity than the last one.

Then there's a good chance they will lose again.  Laugh all you want at Biden, but he would have crushed Trump and may again in 2020.  They have to find a middle of the road guy, unfortunately white, and then pick Elizabeth Warren for the vice-presidency, or a minority candidate.  Elizabeth warren will lose - I don't want that, I'm sorry to say it, but she will lose. But what they really have to do - is cut the bullshit. Fuck these primaries where everyone stabs everyone in the back and makes the eventual winner look like a piece of shit. These dumb-ass democrats need to understand the importance of the next 2 years, and if they can't figure that out, then they are in the fascist plan as well and the only hope is the military. They need to get together, all the "great" minds and come up  with who they want to run - and who they want as vice president- and runs them and then get some bozos who will throw any debates and primaries and the 2 golden couple win by landslides and look great . they need to pull together and come together =- and they need to be ruthless and call a spade a spade when debating that asshole in the white house - but if there is still this divided party, its the end. 
And black people have to vote. Read an article where the democratic party can't get the black voters in Alabama, 40% of the party, to the polls to vote against Moore.  WTF?  They want an end to white supremacy, bad cops killing them, black lives matter, reparations, etc etc etc ...get off your ass and vote 

Had Jim Webb gotten the Democratic nod in 2016, I would have voted for him in a heartbeat. 

SoxIlliniRob wrote:

alohafri wrote:

sharpy wrote:Ultimately, I'm guessing that the Dems REALLY want a female candidate to present as a calm, sensible contrast to the orange moron.  Hopefully they can find one with a tad more popularity than the last one.

Then there's a good chance they will lose again.  Laugh all you want at Biden, but he would have crushed Trump and may again in 2020.  They have to find a middle of the road guy, unfortunately white, and then pick Elizabeth Warren for the vice-presidency, or a minority candidate.  Elizabeth warren will lose - I don't want that, I'm sorry to say it, but she will lose. But what they really have to do - is cut the bullshit. Fuck these primaries where everyone stabs everyone in the back and makes the eventual winner look like a piece of shit. These dumb-ass democrats need to understand the importance of the next 2 years, and if they can't figure that out, then they are in the fascist plan as well and the only hope is the military. They need to get together, all the "great" minds and come up  with who they want to run - and who they want as vice president- and runs them and then get some bozos who will throw any debates and primaries and the 2 golden couple win by landslides and look great . they need to pull together and come together =- and they need to be ruthless and call a spade a spade when debating that asshole in the white house - but if there is still this divided party, its the end. 
And black people have to vote. Read an article where the democratic party can't get the black voters in Alabama, 40% of the party, to the polls to vote against Moore.  WTF?  They want an end to white supremacy, bad cops killing them, black lives matter, reparations, etc etc etc ...get off your ass and vote 

Had Jim Webb gotten the Democratic nod in 2016, I would have voted for him in a heartbeat. 

Yeah, you and about 17 other folks.

blondy28 wrote:

alohafri wrote:

sharpy wrote:Ultimately, I'm guessing that the Dems REALLY want a female candidate to present as a calm, sensible contrast to the orange moron.  Hopefully they can find one with a tad more popularity than the last one.

Then there's a good chance they will lose again.  Laugh all you want at Biden, but he would have crushed Trump and may again in 2020.  They have to find a middle of the road guy, unfortunately white, and then pick Elizabeth Warren for the vice-presidency, or a minority candidate.  Elizabeth warren will lose - I don't want that, I'm sorry to say it, but she will lose. But what they really have to do - is cut the bullshit. Fuck these primaries where everyone stabs everyone in the back and makes the eventual winner look like a piece of shit. These dumb-ass democrats need to understand the importance of the next 2 years, and if they can't figure that out, then they are in the fascist plan as well and the only hope is the military. They need to get together, all the "great" minds and come up  with who they want to run - and who they want as vice president- and runs them and then get some bozos who will throw any debates and primaries and the 2 golden couple win by landslides and look great . they need to pull together and come together =- and they need to be ruthless and call a spade a spade when debating that asshole in the white house - but if there is still this divided party, its the end. 
And black people have to vote. Read an article where the democratic party can't get the black voters in Alabama, 40% of the party, to the polls to vote against Moore.  WTF?  They want an end to white supremacy, bad cops killing them, black lives matter, reparations, etc etc etc ...get off your ass and vote 

Had Jim Webb gotten the Democratic nod in 2016, I would have voted for him in a heartbeat. 

It kinda defeats the purpose to have someone with Republican ideology win the Democratic nomination.  That's kinda like me saying "if Kamala Harris was the Republican candidate for President, she would get my vote!"

alohafri wrote:

blondy28 wrote:

alohafri wrote:

sharpy wrote:Ultimately, I'm guessing that the Dems REALLY want a female candidate to present as a calm, sensible contrast to the orange moron.  Hopefully they can find one with a tad more popularity than the last one.

Then there's a good chance they will lose again.  Laugh all you want at Biden, but he would have crushed Trump and may again in 2020.  They have to find a middle of the road guy, unfortunately white, and then pick Elizabeth Warren for the vice-presidency, or a minority candidate.  Elizabeth warren will lose - I don't want that, I'm sorry to say it, but she will lose. But what they really have to do - is cut the bullshit. Fuck these primaries where everyone stabs everyone in the back and makes the eventual winner look like a piece of shit. These dumb-ass democrats need to understand the importance of the next 2 years, and if they can't figure that out, then they are in the fascist plan as well and the only hope is the military. They need to get together, all the "great" minds and come up  with who they want to run - and who they want as vice president- and runs them and then get some bozos who will throw any debates and primaries and the 2 golden couple win by landslides and look great . they need to pull together and come together =- and they need to be ruthless and call a spade a spade when debating that asshole in the white house - but if there is still this divided party, its the end. 
And black people have to vote. Read an article where the democratic party can't get the black voters in Alabama, 40% of the party, to the polls to vote against Moore.  WTF?  They want an end to white supremacy, bad cops killing them, black lives matter, reparations, etc etc etc ...get off your ass and vote 

Had Jim Webb gotten the Democratic nod in 2016, I would have voted for him in a heartbeat. 

It kinda defeats the purpose to have someone with Republican ideology win the Democratic nomination.  That's kinda like me saying "if Kamala Harris was the Republican candidate for President, she would get my vote!"

Yeah, I know. Eugene Debs is too far right for you.

blondy28 wrote:

alohafri wrote:

blondy28 wrote:

alohafri wrote:

sharpy wrote:Ultimately, I'm guessing that the Dems REALLY want a female candidate to present as a calm, sensible contrast to the orange moron.  Hopefully they can find one with a tad more popularity than the last one.

Then there's a good chance they will lose again.  Laugh all you want at Biden, but he would have crushed Trump and may again in 2020.  They have to find a middle of the road guy, unfortunately white, and then pick Elizabeth Warren for the vice-presidency, or a minority candidate.  Elizabeth warren will lose - I don't want that, I'm sorry to say it, but she will lose. But what they really have to do - is cut the bullshit. Fuck these primaries where everyone stabs everyone in the back and makes the eventual winner look like a piece of shit. These dumb-ass democrats need to understand the importance of the next 2 years, and if they can't figure that out, then they are in the fascist plan as well and the only hope is the military. They need to get together, all the "great" minds and come up  with who they want to run - and who they want as vice president- and runs them and then get some bozos who will throw any debates and primaries and the 2 golden couple win by landslides and look great . they need to pull together and come together =- and they need to be ruthless and call a spade a spade when debating that asshole in the white house - but if there is still this divided party, its the end. 
And black people have to vote. Read an article where the democratic party can't get the black voters in Alabama, 40% of the party, to the polls to vote against Moore.  WTF?  They want an end to white supremacy, bad cops killing them, black lives matter, reparations, etc etc etc ...get off your ass and vote 

Had Jim Webb gotten the Democratic nod in 2016, I would have voted for him in a heartbeat. 

It kinda defeats the purpose to have someone with Republican ideology win the Democratic nomination.  That's kinda like me saying "if Kamala Harris was the Republican candidate for President, she would get my vote!"

Yeah, I know. Eugene Debs is too far right for you.

I voted for Ross Perot.  I just would have had a problem voting for the guy who is more like the Vietnam Vet character from Seinfeld who helped Elaine write the Peterman catalog.  I also think running a Democrat who's really a Republican sorta defeats the purpose of what those of us on the left are discussing that we need to do to win elections promoting OUR values.  I don't think changing those values to Republican values is the strategic position we should take.  If we did, we'd just vote for the Republican and call it a week.

alohafri wrote:

blondy28 wrote:

alohafri wrote:

blondy28 wrote:

alohafri wrote:

sharpy wrote:Ultimately, I'm guessing that the Dems REALLY want a female candidate to present as a calm, sensible contrast to the orange moron.  Hopefully they can find one with a tad more popularity than the last one.

Then there's a good chance they will lose again.  Laugh all you want at Biden, but he would have crushed Trump and may again in 2020.  They have to find a middle of the road guy, unfortunately white, and then pick Elizabeth Warren for the vice-presidency, or a minority candidate.  Elizabeth warren will lose - I don't want that, I'm sorry to say it, but she will lose. But what they really have to do - is cut the bullshit. Fuck these primaries where everyone stabs everyone in the back and makes the eventual winner look like a piece of shit. These dumb-ass democrats need to understand the importance of the next 2 years, and if they can't figure that out, then they are in the fascist plan as well and the only hope is the military. They need to get together, all the "great" minds and come up  with who they want to run - and who they want as vice president- and runs them and then get some bozos who will throw any debates and primaries and the 2 golden couple win by landslides and look great . they need to pull together and come together =- and they need to be ruthless and call a spade a spade when debating that asshole in the white house - but if there is still this divided party, its the end. 
And black people have to vote. Read an article where the democratic party can't get the black voters in Alabama, 40% of the party, to the polls to vote against Moore.  WTF?  They want an end to white supremacy, bad cops killing them, black lives matter, reparations, etc etc etc ...get off your ass and vote 

Had Jim Webb gotten the Democratic nod in 2016, I would have voted for him in a heartbeat. 

It kinda defeats the purpose to have someone with Republican ideology win the Democratic nomination.  That's kinda like me saying "if Kamala Harris was the Republican candidate for President, she would get my vote!"

Yeah, I know. Eugene Debs is too far right for you.

I voted for Ross Perot.  I just would have had a problem voting for the guy who is more like the Vietnam Vet character from Seinfeld who helped Elaine write the Peterman catalog.  I also think running a Democrat who's really a Republican sorta defeats the purpose of what those of us on the left are discussing that we need to do to win elections promoting OUR values.  I don't think changing those values to Republican values is the strategic position we should take.  If we did, we'd just vote for the Republican and call it a week.

I didn't see Jim Webb as a Republican. I saw him as a moderate centrist with common sense. He impressed me with his comment about enemies, which you saw differently than I did. His enemy was out to kill him, not to fight him politically. Last I saw, the NRA, Hillary's "enemy" wasn't trying to kill her.